Mmm, voters fraud, anyone? And they talk about Democrats, voters on the left. The nerve of these people.

What is the point of having an election if you can't come up with a total? I guess this means Mitts record of being the only non incumbent to win Iowa and New Hampshire is erased from the record books. All the states that wanted to change their election date to vote first and they would not let them. How can Iowa make the case they should be first now. They can't count.

Ouch! My chad is hanging!

ir12,

I, like many others, figured out Mitt Romney didn't when the election. And if my calculations are correct based on numbers initially provided Santorum won the Iowa caucus. On the news they showed where votes for Romney was calculated as 22 when it was suppose to be 2, which would have definitely caused him to be the runner up instead of the winner. And now all of sudden, votes are missing. Yeah right. Fraud to the extreme.

This could be a problem. How does the Supreme Court decide when they are both Republicans. Do they just go with the one with the most money? As it appears the Iowan Republicans have done.

Maybe America needs international monitors to make sure the elections aren't rigged.

How is it we can tell INSTANTLY how many hits a youtube video gets,and votes in an ELECTION can't (or won't) be counted properly???and quickly???...I thought Flori-DUH was the only place with that problem......It's 2012.....maybe time for ONE national set method of counting votes,instantly....get rid of the human element,....we have these little boxes with circuitboards and chips inside....computers I think they're called......This isn't a Dem,or Repub issue.....BOTH parties at different times have been bitten in the ass by voting glitches/fraud..........Bad enough,every election I've voted in has been a choice of the lesser of two evils....,,,U.S. Army Disabled Veteran

That's a good one devil. I've thought that myself. We should have the UN step in or maybe NATO. It seems we're no better then the countries we assail as rigging elections.

It's funny that when Romney was 7 votes ahead of Santorum - Romney was declared the winner. When it appears Santorum is ahead by 34 points - it's declared a draw because of all the missing and incorrect data from precincts. How can a winner even be declared in this fiasco. What a waste.

Looks like the only voting fraud going on is in the republican party.

It's one of the beauties of the Iowa Caucus - there really isn't a paper trail. More so on the Republican side, but it's still not so much of one as when people go to the electronic ballot boxes in a primary. The Iowa caucuses for Republicans don't mean much - they don't collect delegates. I think the Iowa caucuses are flawed, yes, but they also serve their purpose in getting people together to talk about the issues, decide whose best suited for the job and then vote, in whatever form that takes.

i didnt know ACORN was stuffing ballot boxes again.

justwonderin.....I could never trust an election to a very complicated machine constructed and managed by a single company that keeps its workings a proprietary secret. Remember the statement from the guy who ran Diebold....I'll do anything I can to see that George Bush gets re-elected? How should those words be interpreted?

Too bad it's a bunch of Democrats currently on trial for voter fraud, but I won't bother you with facts here on BSNBC.

Ann Abneyvia Facebook...(#1.10)..."It's one of the beauties of the Iowa Caucus - there really isn't a paper trail."

WHAT ??? They vote on paper ballots and put them in a box....Where are the boxes ???....why can't they "carry the one" when adding ???? If you had a farming accident and only have 8 fingers left, you should not be allowed to count votes.....Sheesh, this has me ticked !!!

I feel a little like a cannibal this morning, skewering my own, but this is beyond ridiculous....Iowans really need to drag these "precinct captains" or whatever they are to the Town Square in Des Moines and tar and feather them for the embarrassment they caused the Nation....Who are these people ?? Publish their names and addresses.....they deserve all the "You are an idiot" mail they get....

I'm now wondering if Governor Branstad honestly won Iowa?

sheesh... Eight... how do you not have the votes for eight precincts. Anyone of them could have won.

It's interesting that right after the Caucus, Iowa said they can't do a recount, that it is not built into the Caucus system. Two weeks later they did a recount? Can't anybody tell the truth?

@Dan G.-461155

"Too bad it's a bunch of Democrats currently on trial for voter fraud, but I won't bother you with facts here on BSNBC."

Pease, Please, bother us with the facts!

Spewing BS like this without quoting a source is just like voting without an accurate count. Idiot.

Missing data from eight precincts! So Romney may still have won? Let's cast doubt from skewed results? What kind of politics is this? Geesh!!!!! Someone must really be afraid of Romney. The Today Show reported on this without mentioning the missing data. Really?

Shirley - he's talking about the 9 people arrested in florida for helping people vote with absentee ballots - which is now illegal (I'm unclear on why or how).. The upshot is that it's a majority black district that elected a white official, and all of the absentee ballots in question are from black voters, with all the accused being black (I believe)...

Yes, I'm bringing up race, because in this case, it seems to be a motivating factor - considering FBI sent swat teams to arrest a 51 year old woman...

Here's your link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/18/florida-voting-election-arrests_n_1213900.html?ref=mostpopular

Where did it mention fraud? And does it matter if Romney won by 8 votes or lost by 8 votes? It's a statistical tie.....and it's only friggin' IOWA.

I agree with many of the other comments. It smells like something is rotten in Iowa. Geez people...and geez people who report the news without mentioning missing data. Sounds like someone wasn't happy with the first Iowa results so they set out to change them. Now, how are we different from the other countries that we send election monitors to?????????

Romney: "I would like to thank the Iowa Republican Party for their careful attention to the caucus process, and we once again recognize Rick Santorum for his strong performance in the state.

Pretty magnanimous coming from a guy that technically lost and that had then pressed Iowa to call a draw. Romney was ahead by 8 and they called it a victory for him, but when Santorum is ahead by 34, it's now a draw?... with "missing" votes? Seriously?

The blatant game playing by this GOP should at least get you thinking.

Please understand the difference between a caucus and a vote. People should remember this was a caucus, not a vote. Precinct delegates were chosen, who will meet in March at the county level to choose delegates to the state convention. The state vote will take place in June. Even those delegates are still not required to vote for the winning candidate on record from their county. And of course those "pledged" to someone who has dropped out need to choose a current candidate. That is why NH is called the first VOTE in the USA. It is unfortunate and disgusting that those in charge can't count, but it is not voter fraud or ballet stuffing. It will all work out by the time it goes through the county and state levels.

So why was Mitt considered the winner by 8 originally, but now it's considered a tie with Santorum ahead by 34? What a bunch of crooks! No one can be trusted.

Went from a Romney win by 8 to a Santorum/Romney tie by 34? Iowa just made itself irrelevant.AGAIN!

Went from a Romney win by 8 to a Santorum/Romney tie by 34? Iowa just made itself irrelevant.AGAIN!

Again? Was it ever relevant?

I HEREBY NOMINaTE KECK for Partisan Hack of all time!

People look at his posts

KECK: i didnt know ACORN was stuffing ballot boxes again.

No matter what the subject he always tries to blame the Democrats....Even for the fact that the Republicans cannot run their own caucus in Iowa and get a decent count.

Silly man.

Keck,

Acorn didn't do anything wrong. You would know this if you watched any news program outside of Fox News who only offers diatribe as news. Remember that guy O'Keefe who lied and distorted video about Acorn? He was once again caught performing voter fraud and taping himself doing it. He actually used identity of a live person and presented him as dead to make his movie. Wonder how long they'lll put him away for that?

We are all losers if one of these clowns wins the presidency

How can they declare a winner when 8 precincts have missing data?

Jeeeesh! Thank heavens we have the repugnant party to guard our votes.<sarc> I know, mistakes were made but at least it doesn't have to go to the Supreme Court for a coin flip (or flop), whatever. Maybe they are going to have to test their caucus leaders to determine if they can count and communicate in English(on both ends of the line), so this fiasco isn't repeated. The guardians of the vote have revealed their clay feet and rock hard heads. Iowa gets a "Golden Cow Flop" award for their lame try at a caucus. Can we give them a big "moo"!

Voter fraud? Democrats do it a lot more. Look no further than the recall petition against Gov. Walker in Wisconsin. Names like Mickey Mouse, Hitler, people that don't exist, multiple names of the same person on the petition, I could go on and on about that, but it seems like the only way Democrats can win is cheat. So look no further than your own before accusing Republicans of voter fraud. I also believe the Democrat and Republican primaries should be reserved for people that are registered to each party, for example registered Democrats can only volt for Democrats and registered Republicans can volt for only republicans so it doesn't skew the results to satisfy the whims of the other party, this has been suggested a number of times by people in both parties so it is fair.

Geez people. Over react much. They don't vote this way in the general election and the caucus votes don't produce any delegates to the convention. As someone noted above, the caucus is just a way for people to get together and discuss the issues and candidates.

Who said anything about "voter fraud"? Stop hallucinating !!!!

Since the subject of voter fraud keeps coming up:

1) About 98% of all voter fraud happens in one of two ways: a) people voting illegally using absentee ballots (the biggest fraud is people casting voted for their spouses without their knowledge.) b) registration of voters by people who throw away forms for people who register for the "other" party.

2) Absentee ballots historically favor the GOP because of their necessarily heavy use by the military. There has been no attempt by the GOP to tighten restrictions on absentee ballots, in fact, the GOP has actually loosened the restrictions, increased the number of absentee ballots and made fraud detection in absentee ballots virtually impossible to prosecute.

3) The registration roll, mark off, system has worked well in elections since the late 1600's. It is extremely difficult to cheat since the advent of computers which can instantaneously compare different precincts, police records, vital statistics records, and even utility bills and Social Security records to catch a person who tries to commit voter fraud. But adding the "challenge" rules in the 1930's really made it virtually impossible to commit fraud and get away with it. The challenge rule says that when you go to vote and your name is not on the list at that precinct, you are allowed to cast a "provisional" ballot. The ballot that was cast against your name is also "pulled" and is considered provisional. (That's why they record your ballot number when you vote.) After the fact, the two provisional ballots are investigated to see which was the "real" person and charges are usually preferred at that time against the person casting the fraudulent ballot if he can be found. There are usually 6-10 cases nationwide each general election. I have been through the process one time (my name was assigned to the wrong district in a general redistricting based on bad map data) and the system works surprisingly well.

4) Despite all the ACORN ballyhoo, the ONLY people who have been charged with voter fraud in connection with voter registration in the last ten general election cycles (every two years for two decades) have been GOP operatives. Sixteen such persons representing GOP groups have been convicted of felony voter registration and sentenced to jail time.

5) So if it is the GOP committing the voter fraud, what was all the ACORN fuss about? ACORN paid people to collect signatures in voter registration drives --- usually $5 a registration. IMHO this was a mistake and should never have been permitted, but the GOP under Reagan made it legal, so it was not "wrong" under the law. But the election laws also say that one cannot throw away or segregate any registrations cards. This was an attempt to discourage the major election fraud that the FEC knew about. (See 4 above.) But it can get screwey when the rubber hits the road. People would, for example, start to fill out a card, make a mistake, and get another card and start over. Others would be "disruptive" and fill out the cards with names like "Mickey Mouse", and still others would fill out cards despite already being enrolled. So ACORN had an internal policy of segregating cards that were incomplete, not signed, or had obvious flaws, such as a name of "Donald Duck." They would label the batches of cards "Probably bad" but submit them along with the rest as required by the FEC. They did this, not for any reason connected with voting, but because they only wanted to pay for cards that were complete. The problem was that the FEC determined that it was segregation of the cards in a way that broke the FEC rules. This was not"voter fraud" per se, but instead an "administrative" error. The fine was small, but the number of incidents was high. And then the GOP spun the story to make it sound much different than it was. The bottom line was that ACORN registered voters primarily in inner city mega-urban places that tend to favor Democratic candidates.

While the right wing ses what it wants to see and only that, the truth is that until very recently this country has had one of the most transparent and honest voting systems in the world (albeit with one of the world's lowest voter turnouts.) That is changing as rules are formulated to try to favor one party over another. I don't mind showing my ID when I vote, but I know that that ID is not what protects my vote, it is the crossing out of my name when I get the ballot that protects it.

The biggest problem is that the GOP has more and more advocated for "fully automated" voting systems and more extensive use of absentee balloting. The GOP-advocated "model" systems do not allow for individual ballots to be backed out when challenged and do not provide any verifiable record of the casting of individual ballots, only gross totals. The electronic systems have been shown over and over to be susceptible to hacking and changing of both gross totals and individual checksum data that supposedly prevents such changes. So voter fraud is becoming more and more of a problem.

The Founding Fathers were scared to death of democracy and did every thing they could to limit the occasions in which people actually voted for officials. The President, Vice-President, Cabinet officers, the Supreme Court and federal court judges, most high civil service offices, and even Senators were all appointed. And the one federal elected office, the House, was given by far the shortest term of office to try to limit the effect of voting irregularities and populism.

maize1951 is a liar.

Something like 1,000,000 signatures were submitted for the recall of Walker, twice as many as they needed.

There will be a revote and more than likely Walker will be kicked out.

If a Mickey Mouse or a Hitler appears on the recall sheets, it would be because someone like Maize signed the petition trying to get the sheet thrown out. But, what a Mickey Mouse brain like Maize does not understand is, they do not throw the whole sheet out, they throw out the 1 signature.

MKM....then why do they go to all the bother in the first place to make it look like it does matter? You know.....pieces of paper and representitives monitoring, counting the paper, tallying all the votes, ect.?

So why was Mitt considered the winner by 8 originally, but now it's considered a tie with Santorum ahead by 34? What a bunch of crooks! No Republican can be trusted. There antipompous, I fixed it for ya.

@Dan G,

One small correction: EVERY case of voter fraud that has resulted in a felony indictment in the past two general election cycles (20 years) has been against a person working on behalf of a GOP organization.

The only indictment even Fox could come up with was a Troy, NY conviction of workers for the Working Families Party (WFP) primary, not in a general election. There were falsified absentee ballots that changed the outcome of the primary. But it was not Democrats operatives, as Fox claimed, it was the primary for a party in which less than 300 people voted statewide. They even tried to tie the fraud to ACORN, even though ACORN was long gone at the time.

In a tiny splinter party like the WFP, just the changes of a few votes during their party primary can have devastating effects on their process. But that said, how meny people have even heard of the WFP, let alone voted for them as a third-party? At least two news reports referred to them as the WTF party. LOL

I guess we will never take Iowa seriously again (not that we did). I wonder if they just wanted the media to come back and spend money there. How stupid are they for announcing this. I can hear them now: We'll go ahead and announce this even though we lost all those votes, it did change the results and we think the people need to see that. Next up, we can convict people of crimes with evidence we lost.

Anyone that has ever worked with or around ACORN knows beyond doubt that they could not be part of any grand conspiracy for voter fraud or anything else. They are a collection of people... volunteers and workers paid via donations... that have always strived to help the needy or the stricken. This ACORN fabrication is chasing a non-existent demon and exists only in GOP minds and propaganda.

@ Dan G-46115

"Too bad it's a bunch of Democrats currently on trial for voter fraud, but I won't bother you with facts here on BSNBC."

Only the Democrats??

I guess you forgot Repubs like:

Indiana’s Republican Sec. of State and chief election officer Charlie White and his 3 counts of voter fraud,

The phony petition fraud which kept Doughboy off the VA primary ballot,

The Voter Outreach of America (Republican organization) scandal that is still under federal investigation,

The recent conviction of Paul E. Schurick, the Republican 2010 campaign manager for former Maryland governor Robert L. Ehrlich Jr, for voter supression,

The 8 Republican politicians just convicted last month in Clay County, KY for voter fraud and worse,

The list goes on, and on

Still feel fully informed by those 'fair and balanced' sources??

I don't live in Wisconsin, but I live across the lake in Michigan. But just for the record SOME states do throw out the whole petition sheet if just one name is fraudent. Unfair I know, but thats just the way some are run. And I never have signed an petition ever in my life, and probably never will.

Heh! Here's an amusing scenario that comes to my mind. I'm not a Paul fangirl or even a Republican, but it seems like the Repubs would do anything to keep Paul from being the nominee, including looking like a bunch of dopes for "losing" votes.

Ron Paul probably won.

It is just going to get worse. The republicans want a nominee who will go along with their lies and deception. So, if Romney is ok with this fiasco, then they will want him to be a part of the horrible and aweful party, The republicans. You cannot be a republican or a conservative without being a liar, manipulator, hypocrite, and evil person. What they are doing right now is initiating a new devil. I cannot believe anyone would vote for this party. It is ludicrous. They are ruining our country and world. We need a five party system, not a two party one. I don't trust half the democrats either. Get it together people. Nevertheless, the republicans are causing the major problems right now and over the past 30 years. It makes me sick to think about how the republicans are lying to the people and how the people believe them. It makes me sick that most of the democrats just laugh at them, when we should be putting them in jail.

@maize1951,

There were 540,000 certified voter names required to have a recall election for Walker. Over 1,000,000 signed the petitions. That's nearly as many people as voted for Walker in the first place.

You state, "Names like Mickey Mouse, Hitler, people that don't exist, multiple names of the same person on the petition, I could go on and on about that, but it seems like the only way Democrats can win is cheat."

But the fact is that the petitions are sealed as soon as they are collected. No one knows what names are on them. The Wisconsin election officials are currently checking every signature against voter rolls, "in a secret location somewhere in Wisconsin or an adjacent state." They will catch all the Mickey Mice, all the Hitlers, all the miltiple names and even all the incompete signatures (for example, in Wisconsin a missing zip code will invalidate the name.')

It kind of reminds me of Huckabee's statement that he had thousands of unopened letters supporting him. The interviewer asked him how he knew what was in an unopened letter. Huckabee blew his stack. Your statement about what is on the petitions or that cheating is involved is a lie. We call people who tell lies liars.

Attempts to have closed primaries (where only registered Republicans can vote in the Republican primary) is a way of disenfranchising the independent and third-party voters or limiting their influence in the primary. A good example is Ron Paul, who is running "as a Republican based on his caucusing with the GOP" but who is actually a registered member and national committee member of the Libertarian Party.

IMHO I believe that all primaries should be open primaries for the simple reason that a majority of people in this country are independents, followed by Democrats, and in third place --- the GOP. Until they start having "independent" primaries, it is all just a way of trying to limit the number of people who participate.

Answer for johnnyt at #1.37 and anyone else interested in facts. - - If you care to look at these and

oops! forgot I can't link - look up "thegreenpapers.com" or Iowa Republican delegates ...

it will explain that Santorum (29,839), Romney (29,805) and Paul (26,036) are all 3 awarded the same number of delegates. The actual vote by 28 total delegates is not until June. Being "off" by a few at the county level or the "winner" on the total count doesn't make any difference, except in publicity and who then may get more campaign money. This was a caucus to elect delegates. Some states (like Florida) don't mind losing half of their delegate voting power for the Republican nomination. Look it up if you are curious.

It is too bad that most of the commenters here have their own agenda to publish without understanding anything about caucuses or voting or what the NOMINATING process is versus the general election. My guess is the majority of commenters here haven't actually voted before.

It seems to me like the masses of Liberals are about trying to make this into some sort of voter fraud. Now if this had been voter fraud then there would of been no mention of the count being incorrect. The part that does not sit well is why they don't just do a recount and declare a winner. It seems to me that the Establishment is once again pushing the candidate they want. Seeing's Iowa is the first Primary to vote and the most coveted for Candidates momentum forward into New Hampshire. Now by just saying its a split decision it leaves the boat just a little unsteady. No one wants to ROCK the BOAT. Think about the effect of a Santorum win in Iowa over Romney in the Media. We all know how human nature is. No one wants to vote for a loser. We may of seen a lot different response from the voters in the New Hampshire Primary. The one who should be screaming "FOUL" is Senator Santorum. That should be what we are talking about. Its the Republicans who voted in Iowa and New Hampshire who should also be speaking out. That is why this whole primary voting system needs to be changed. It gives to much emphasis to states like Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Florida. Once the candidates win or lose those primaries its all but over for all the other states in the Union who gets to be their party's choice. We need to hold all states primaries much closer together. This way all candidates get a fair shot at the whole delegate system. Then more states have and are a part of the equation. You see what we need to do is go to a popular vote. Then the candidates from both party's would have to pay more attention to all of us and not just some of us. Or is it truly time for a actual common sense party!

I also oppose Super Pac's. Remove the Corporations and Elite Wealthy from the equation and return our system back to the People. This is a problem from both of the existing party's. All one wealthy elitist or corporation has to do now is put its monies behind one candidate or another and feed a endless amount of campaign dollars to purchase advertisement time etc. Another is the candidate should not have any sort of vested interest or close financial association with any media outlet. Like Romney's Bain Capital owning Clear Channel Broadcasting one of the countries largest media giants. Time for Real People to run our country and not these out of touch elitist the parties throw at us.

There is a little irony that Romney called it a win based on 8 votes but when the recount doesn't go in his favor they are calling it a split. I am not sure what difference it makes, its not a winner takes all delegates state.

Also why are liberals being mentioned in this? This is a republican primary, are you republicans that worried that you have to point fingers at something so insignificant, the results aren't going to change, Santorum and Romney will keep their delegates.

Well Maize, the intent of putting Mickey Mouse on the sheet is not in order to get the name count tally increased, it is usually done by someone who wants to try and get signatures deemed fraudulent and invalidate valid signatures.

Chris-749391 - I realise some states allow Independents to cast their vote in a party primary. But I for one don't think that is appropriate. Independents or unaffiliated voters do not wish to declare allegiance to either major party, thus why should they be allowed to vote and possibly influence a party primary? The primaries are the vehicle to determine which candidate will be the eventual nominee for the (D)'s or (R)'s. The general election is open to all voters, regardless of voter designation, that is the appropriate time for anyone to cast a vote.

Shirley Ujest - FYI on facts you requested in your comment above:

Two New York Democrats went on trial today for for their alleged actions to steal votes for Democratic candidates in the Working Families primary by forging absentee ballots.

http://troyrecord.com/articles/2012/01/20/news/doc4f190cd1e01d9056876287.txt

The GOP establishment did what they needed to avoid the "Romney Loses" headlines. What a bunch of frauds.

lamdaguy - I thought the same thing. Even if the 20 votes were given to Santorum!

There is going to be RIOTS in the streets this year if they start this CRAP in the real presidential vote. America wants an honest to goodness election, not one filled with missing ballots or information.

They better get it together because OWS is going to GROW in numbers quickly, with any of the Horseplay in this up coming election!!!

Yep, when Romney came in 8 votes ahead, it was "Romney wins!" but when the same results show Santorum as the "victor" by over four times the margin, then it becomes a tie. Sounds like some old ward heelers at work creating the establishment GOP spin.

I just saw on the news that Santorum is declared the winner of Iowa caucus, no tie. Perry dropped out of the race.

Actually, there are still 8 caucauses from which the votes have been lost or misplaced. And the repubs say that there is no voter fraud in their elections.

This brings back memories. It reminds me of the incident in West Palm Beach with Al Gore and it reminds me of the ACORN incident in 2008. The GOP needs to get things in line before November or else it will be open season on the GOP and election frauds in the news media.

This is unbelievable

No it's not. Remember, we're talking about Republicans.

And data is missing from 8 districts? Ha ha, the Tpubs can't count and can't keep track of their own gang. Pitiful example of their love of free and "fair". What a joke.

A Ron Paul landslide victory that mysteriously went missing. You will always find info missing, changed or deleted when the numbers don't go their way.

Dems? Reps? All the same. Just a dog and pony show to keep you thinking that you have a choice. Well, you don't. They're all a bunch of power-grabbing, corrupt businessmen. One honest candidate in the bunch and most of you on these posts disregard him. You'd think with all the crap and lies we'd been through since Bush and Co., you people would want REAL change, not just Obama lip service. Get of the Dem/Rep argument because it is well worn and irrellevant. The only change these neo-cons want, is a change of power control. They already have the money. It's all about power now. Even when Ron Paul wins, he won't, we'll all lose. The system is corrupt and the folks in power will not sit back and watch their gold pile dwindle.

We need Perry and Blechman to pray together. Even God will be forced to listen.

It is amazing to watch this stuff. It is like reality tv without the tv.

This should put to rest any argument from them about voter fraud

For one, most of you on here don't know the difference between a caucus and a primary and the strange complexities that exist with a caucus.

Secondly, you also don't understand that you have no right to vote in a primary, and therefore there can't be voter fraud.

Lastly, the general public doesn't actually choose who the presidential nominee is for either party. The delegates decide at each party's convention. It just happens to be that the delegates will choose the "winner" of the primaries so they choose someone who has already proven they can gain votes, for their party at least. There has been much talk in the past with both parties that they might choose the "loser" of the primary because they may be more electable. This hasn't happened as far as I know, but I don't doubt that it will one day.

rl - Let us not forget that some of the candidates cannot even get enough signatures in time and file to get ON THE BALLOTS. My God this country in in REAL trouble!!!

It's simply amazing that ANYONE would even comsider one of these for the most Powerful Position in the WORLD!!!

Really... cause the latest nation wide polls show both Mitt and Paul at a virtual dead heat with the POTUS! So again... no one wants to concede what the numbers actually show....Hide and watch what happens when Newt...his brother Rick, and his other brother Rick fissile out. Fact is none of them have the cash for running the entire Nation Wide Race. Mitt can run it, lord knows he has some unnamed endless supply of cash, that I really would like to see where it is all coming from! I am almost certain that if the backing behind him was in the public light...well lets just say he wouldn't have nigh the support he is getting from the American voting public now....And don't get that twisted.... that's only just my opinion! And the good Dr. Just rallies another couple talks and someone says money bomb....and magically another couple million dollars appear to carry him through the next state! But Hey he is just a crazy ol' man that no one pays any attention to!

What? Turmoil? Romney never even expected to win Iowa. It was a surprise he did...or basically tied. And how is the Republican Party in disarray when one R wins over another R? Or wait maybe the second R won over the first R.

Would you have said the Democratic Party was in "turmoil" in '08? Because that was about the longest lasting primary season ever. "They were in disarray and didn't know where to turn".

Give me a break dude. Find good criticisms and quit writing doomsday scenarios over non-issues.

Matt...as someone who leans to the progressive side of politics, perhaps you and I wouldnt agree on much, however, I DO agree with your post. This issue is a NON-issue for most people and should be treated as such. The only issue, if there is one, is that with less than 150,000 pieces of paper to count, it's rather odd that 8 precincts can't be found; certified or whatever else needs to be done to certify the caucus results. The issue of who won is definitely not a doomsday scenario.

Because if they go last, the corn doesn't get planted. You like movies, right? Popcorn? The defense rests.

Mike it is a caucus not a primary. There is a difference.

He probably did win and that is why eight precincts are missing. Eight... how do you not have the votes for eight precincts. Anyone of them could have won.

Screw that....both Democratic and Republican forms of Government are corrupt...what we NEED.... is an honest form of government. One that is build on principles and truth, one with transparency so we the people are the ones that choose how our country acts and what our country does based on a government of the people and by the people......OMG holy crap, I didn't come up with that on my own... its what the constitution was written for, you know... that thing that Ron Paul keeps talking about....and no one wants to pay attention to! WAKE UP SHEEPLE....look whats happening! Can you not see we are heading towards a crash of monumental proportions, one like hasn't been seen by eyes or heard by ears in many many lifetimes! Something MUST CHANGE, the "Governing parties" who ever they may be are eating away at your civil liberty. You know you can put a frog in a pot of water on the stove and then turn the burner on....the water heats up at such a gradual pace that the frog never sees that fact that he is going to boil and die....he will sit right there succumb to death because the change has been so gradual that he does not realize it. The water is getting hot people... its time we realize it before its to late!

Spoken like a true uninformed political idiot. And pray tell just WHAT did he do????? Uhhhhhh........I know! He invested his own capital and became a wealthy man.....SHAME!!!!! Let's stone him.

Yes BK but you left out one essential point.

"And pray tell just WHAT did he do????? Uhhhhhh........I know! He invested his own capital and became a wealthy man..."by screwing over others.

BK The problem is not that he made money- we are not "all just jealous".

Simple fact of life- the slow person will get eaten by the bear. Maybe you have better genetics, maybe you eat well and exercise-you will win by luck or hard work-good for you! But if you buy a senator who passes a law that the other guy has a 50 pound weight chained to his leg-guess what your chances of winning are now?

People aren't upset about someone winning. They are furious that the game is rigged.

Good luck to us all. Vote your conscience. I vote Paul!

i

Surprise.....it's in your a**

Now, now, now BK. Are you offended? We're the ones that should be offended.

Ann,

I see you somewhat afraid of Mitt. LOL, are we a tad bit scared of Obummer trying to keep up with him in the presidential debates.

Amen. You can say THAT again!

Thanks!

We ALL want change. That is accept for the corporations (big money) and war mongering capitalist. RON PAUL threatens their way of life. Money talks, we all know that. People call him crazy, some believe in portions of what he wants, others blame his age. I for one, believe he will NOT get everything he wants BUT will make a change. I would much rather the United States determines who to trade with rather than other countries deciding NOT to trade with us. People criticize the wars and it appears we are amping up for the big one. We are desecrating our constitution. Just this morning we are spitting words with China, Russia, the ME, Pakistan, etc. I would much rather step back for the next four years and re-evaluate just exactly where we are heading. Yes people. I understand we are scared about IRAN but understand there ARE other counries out there. How many of you honestly believe we could take on the ME, China and Russia in the next four years?

They have been forcing Romney down everyone's throat. It does not surprise me that this would/could happen in Iowa. This BS about who is "electable" is more hogwash. VOTE your conscience!

Some of the more bizarre things Ron Paul has said would surely come out in greater detail in the General Election. Whether you agree with his principles and ideas or not, I think any reasonable person would admit he is not electable.

Even IF a majority of voters could get past those things (not likely) and Ron Paul became the next POTUS, does anyone really think he could get anything accomplished? Congress would not get behind ANY of his "solutions" so even less would get accomplished (if that is possible).

Libertarians need someone more well spoken about his ideas than Paul. Many, many people identify with a bunch of Paul's ideas. However, he comes across as a senile old man and just rambles and rambles on in a nonsensical manner.

He does the opposite of normal politicians who make 0 points in response to a question...Ron Paul makes 30 points in every answer to every question. Both leave you scratching your head.

This result was predicted well in advance by some Ron Paul supporters, who I remember saying, "Ron Paul will not be able to win Iowa, because he will only be 'allowed' to get as many votes at the RNC feels are high enough not to completely invalidate the results.' "

There you have it. Exclude multiple counties and throw the entire caucus into question, but almost surely at the expense of Ron Paul, not Mitt or Rick...

It's really difficult to argue counterpoints...you're arguing hypotheticals. But I'll entertain you.

I don't like the idea that these wars lasted so long and cost so much money under Bush. However, in the opposite manner I fear what a presidency may have meant under Gore. How would he have responded to 9/11? Might we still be in the same quagmire (minus Iraq)? Would we have had no response at all and cowed to Al Qaida? Would bin Laden not only still be alive but also have been living with much more power than he ever had under Bush/Obama post-9/11?

Considering bin Laden orchestrated both World Trade Center attacks ('94 & '01) and the USS Cole, might we have experienced another by now? I think probably, considering he was under Clinton and Clinton did nothing to stop bin Laden after the first WTC or the Cole. You'd have to expect Gore to behave similarly.

You don't have to like what has happened, but I wouldn't be so quick to argue a better world "if only Gore" especially when you consider 9/11 in the mix.

Also, if you look at his freakish behavior after he lost the presidency, it showed that he had a problem handling extreme stress...something a POTUS has to do everyday.

please don't forget that it was the Gipper who armed and fellated Osama Bin Laden to begin with

What proof do you have that any fraud occured in the last presidential election? You sir are the only idiot I see around here.

Well at least he did not steal the presidency by having his daddy's buddies on the supreme court stop the most important recount in the history of this country like shrub jr did, President Obama won his election with the most votes. You will never, ever make me believe that georgie actually won either of his elections. I know the American voters have let themselves become dumbed down somewhat but nobody is stupid enough to vote for an absolute idiot like geogie - are they? Well, if so, then maybe that is why we are in deep enough to require boots!

The media reported the results of the study during the week after November 12, 2001. The results of the study showed that had the limited county by county recounts requested by the Gore team been completed, Bush would still have been the winner of the election. However, the study also showed that the result of a statewide recount of all disputed ballots could have been different. The study was unable to review the ballots in Broward and Volusia that were counted as legal votes during the manual recounts thus analysis included those figures that were obtained using very loose standards in its calculations. Since these recounts resulted in a sizable net gain for Gore (665 net Gore votes) they have no bearing on the assessment that Bush would likely have won the recounts requested by Gore and ordered by the Florida Supreme Court. They do however play a major role in the assessment that Gore could have won a recount of the entire state if overvotes were taken into account. Without these votes Gore would have lost a recount of the entire state even with all overvotes added in. Unless 495 or more of those votes were actual votes then Gore still would lose. Note these figures also do not take into account a dispute over 500 asbentee ballots that Bush requested to be added to the certified totals. If found to be legal votes that would put Gore totally out of reach regardless of any manual recount standard

BK...I point to people such as yourself as to what's really wrong with this country. You have no respect for the office of the president or anyone else that disagrees with your seemingly narrow viewpoint(s). Not everyone supported President Truman, or Eisenhower or Nixon, but a duly elected president deserves all the respect of the office, which they received. To cry fraud and smear the president and the office is not only disgusting; it's treason!

Ahhh......who's voting is at the center of this story? Chicago Politics? And Obama involved with the Iowa caucuses? Are you really sure you're completely out of your nights sleep before posting that one?

This was a Republican affair....100%!!

Because Chicago is so geographically close to Iowa it must control the politics there (even GOP politics)

NY must then control NH politics too!?! Miami must control S. Carolina!?! Oh no, no one is safe from big city influence!?!

you are an idiot!!

Actually no......we have a clone of Joe Birdbrain waiting in the wings who will step in at the last moment and seize the day as champion of all.. Unfortunately, none of us will understand a damned thing he says or does. Oh, Happpppppppy Days!