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Subscribe to RSSA major push by social conservatives involves 150 evangelical leaders uniting behind one of Mitt Romney's rivals to stop him from running away with the nomination. NBC's Peter Alexander reports.
Influential evangelical Christian leaders on Saturday endorsed Rick Santorum for the Republican U.S. presidential nomination, in an attempt to strengthen him as the more conservative alternative to front-runner Mitt Romney.
At a weekend meeting at a ranch outside Houston, the group of 150 conservatives agreed on the third ballot to support the former Pennsylvania senator.
They had not been expected to reach agreement on one candidate since evangelical support was splintered among Santorum, former U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Newt Gingrich and Texas Governor Rick Perry.
"What I did not think was possible appears to be possible," said Tony Perkins, leader of the Family Research Council and spokesman for the group.
Perkins described a "vigorous and passionate" discussion about who would make the best president and said eventually people made concessions to their views in order to coalesce around one candidate.
Conservatives are desperate to find a viable alternative to Romney, who won the first two nomination contests in Iowa and New Hampshire and now leads the polls in South Carolina, which holds its Republican primary on Jan. 21.
In the 2008 election, about 60 percent of the voters in South Carolina described themselves as evangelical Christians. Santorum is a Catholic and father of seven who strongly opposes abortion and gay rights.
Despite Romney's front-runner status, many conservatives mistrust him because of his record in relatively liberal Massachusetts, where he once supported abortion rights.
"Not a lot of time was spent on Mitt Romney. It was more about the positive. How to get America back on the right road. How to get America great again," Perkins said.
As the South Carolina primary looms, 2012 GOP presidential candidates hope to gain the backing evangelical voters. NBC's Kelly O'Donnell reports.
Perkins said the group debated and prayed over who to pick but in the end chose the person they believed had the best social conservative and economic policies and was most likely to defeat Democratic President Barack Obama in the Nov. 6 election.
Santorum's nearest rival was the twice-divorced Gingrich.
Gingrich's campaign has begun airing TV ads in South Carolina that call Romney "pro-abortion," and say that Romney - who says he now opposes the procedure - cannot be trusted to be reliably anti-abortion. In response, Romney began running a radio ad touting his anti-abortion views.
Perkins said all factors were taken into account at the Texas meeting and said that Romney's Mormon religion "wasn't even discussed."
Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.
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better Santorum than the socialist Blingrich!!
Looks like Romney's magic underwear ain't working too well..
The poor Newtster had just one too many wives. Too close to polygamy for S.C.
Just wait for the dead people's vote....
URL below
dailycaller.com/2012/01/11/video-nh-poll-workers-shown-handing-out-ballots-in-dead-peoples-names/
Take a look at the above video, probably the most damning indictment of not using ID to vote. And, it happened in the just completed New Hampshire Primary!
I do believe that throws the non ID argument right out the window, it is an invalid argument, proof is right before your eyes. (on hidden camera)
Onward Christian soldiers!!!
Go ahead and back the guy for your presidential candidate.
You remember. He's the guy that couldn't win his seat in his own state. Twice.
So he's got about an ice cube's chance in hell (if you'll pardon the expression) of winning nationally.
Yaaaaaawwwwwnnn.
Egilman- Another story from, the rights pimp daddy, he will probable be brought up on charges... LOL Want to comment how the the evangelicals can't support, Romney? Why because he is a Mormon!
The fact, Egilman, is that there is no evidence of voter fraud on anything but a very very minor scale anywhere in the United States, yet conservatives intend to spend many millions of dollars on IDs and unnecessary government "poll cops" to solve this imaginary problem. So much for the small government conservatives say that they love. SMALL GOVERNMENT EXCEPT FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING THE LIVES OF POOR PEOPLE MORE DIFFICULT, DENYING RIGHTS TO GAYS, OR CONTROLLING SEXUAL OR OTHER ADULT BEHAVIOR.
These election laws are designed to produce the same result as poll taxes and other silly rules from the Jim Crow era of un-civil rights ..... prevent voting by disadvantaged people, as it is well-known that people who cannot afford a car and therefore do not have a driver's license are more likely to vote Democratic.
I do not disagree that people who vote should be able to prove that they have that right based on citizenship, residency and any other legal requirement. However, the new voter laws that the disingenuous Republicans favor can be compared to setting up road block driver's license checks on every street in order to verify that every driver has a license, insurance and all other driving requirements
In Oregon, all voting is by mail. There is no evidence of voter fraud and the voting process is convenient. If Republicans want to improve voting they should take a look at our system.
don97524
Here in Washington all voting is by mail also, and there was massive proven voter fraud in the 2004 election for governor. COURT PROVEN voter fraud. I'm surprised that you in Oregon didn't hear about it, it made the National News!
Vote by mail is the easiest system To de-fraud...... Beyond any reasonable doubt.
...and the reason he couldn't win his seat the second time?
The other shoe to drop in all of this was the question of where, exactly, Santorum’s children were living and who was paying for their education — the people of Pennsylvania or the people of Virginia. Even though Santorum’s family was clearly living in Virginia, Santorum was billing the state of Pennsylvania — and the Penn Hills School District in particular — around $40,000 per child to educate each of his five children in the “Western Pennsylvania Cyber Charter School”. After the Pittsburgh local news stations started showing viewers the tours of Santorum’s empty and abandoned Penn Hills home, irate citizens started demanding an investigation into the legality of Santorum charging the Penn Hills school district for the expensive education of five children who didn’t really live there, and instead were living in Virginia
Things got incredibly ugly as this was all hashed out in both the media and in the court of public opinion. Ultimately, Santorum yanked his kids out of the “Cyber Charter School” program and had his wife Karen start homeschooling them instead — but he refused to reimburse the state for the hundreds of thousands of dollars that were spent “cyber-schooling” the Santorum children while they lived in the state of Virginia. When confronted about any of this, Santorum became incredibly brittle on camera, lashing out at those who questioned him, and earning a solid reputation as an insufferable and impersonable jackass.
Read more
$40,000 X 5 children = $200,000 per year! Great move, Evangelicals. Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not steal"?
Egilman 1.7
You are absolutely correct about massive and proven voter fraud. For the record, there are numerous accounts of voter fraud in Oregon, so Don’s claim of no evidence of voter fraud is naïve at best, and there is evidence of voter fraud in virtually every state. As an example, the state of South Carolina just announced that they’ve discovered that during the last election, over 900 dead people voted.
The only reason for being against voter ID laws is to be able to perpetuate voter fraud.
America is a nation built upon tolerance. Fundamentalism of any stripe represents intolerance. Maybe he should run for President of the Vatican.
Santorum did not pay for the cyberschool, because the school should have known, and if they did, they did nothing until prodded to do so, the judge said Santorum didn't have to pay. There is another little thing that originally they did not have a house in VA when they registered the kids, and also they put the place up for lease some time after they bought the VA home. you will find that the rules on these are not very clear at times either.
Now, in Virginia where the Judge declared Virginia primary candidate registration petition system has been declared "probably unconstitutional", the judge refused to put Perry, Gingrich Santorum (and someone else) on the Ballet. He said Perry and other knew for months (wrong) that tried to comply with the system (correct) and because they were "too Late" too bad.
Funny how the justice system works, isn't it?
Egilman............there was no fraud alleged or found in the 2004 Washington Governor's election. It simply took three vote counts before the democratic candidate was declsred the winner by 129 votes. Sounds like you're upset that the GOP candidate lost.
Egilman
In the WA 2004 election there were charges of fraud, but none of those charges (which were not verified) involved unauthorized people voting. NONE.
So unintelligent to make cracks about Mormons religious clothing / underwear, this is why there is major issues in the USA, because of ignorance and bigotry ! Mitt is running for President of the USA not congregations or churches ! What a shame so much bigotry and unintelligent people out there ! I am a Mormon, and I am intelligent, Mitt has not secured my vote yet, as I vote on issues and plans, not religion affiliation like some dumb people.
Could someone please explain what the hell an "evangelical" is. Are they Christians, Muslims, Jews or just plain "My way or the highway" religious bigots? It's all so very confusing.
the right wing so called Christian Conservatives have a social agenda they want ... their aim is to strip women of their rights .. honor thy Mother And Father by takeing away their SS and Medicare .. deny the poor health care .. .. I wonder if Jesus lived in a Mansion like all these Christian Leaders do
Sanitarium cannot be president.
.
Wet Willy
You are obviously running for Minister of Misinformation. There is no place in the US with more than a couple of isolated cases where people who should not have voted cast ballots. You are spreading the lies planted by groups funded by the Koch brothers, among others, and that makes you a dupe ..... a lackey ..... a water carrier for the lunatic fringe.
The fraud that is rampant is the fraud where the votes are not counted properly, boxes of ballots are "lost", computers are tampered with. This fraud is done by the political groups. Fraud by voters is virtually non-esistant. It's are politicans and their cronies that need to be watched.
Big Al,
You were right on the last guess: "My way or the highway" religious bigots.
If this weren't true, the "evangelicals" would be content to never get abortions, to be unfailingly true to their spouses, to give generously to charity, to care for their own families, etc. Not only don't they do this, they want to tell everyone that doesn't believe in the same religious fantasy that they will go to hell. Nice people, eh? What they really preach is hatred and disrespect for anyone not in agreement with them.
Don't be too upset. Just be a good person while you're here and you'll be fine.
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." --- Thomas Jefferson
Support for what, Santorum is a loser. The people of Pennsylvania kicked this lowlife out because of his poor performance. A vote for this guy is a vote to destroy this Nation.
I hope the IRS levels charges against those 150 Fundamentalist Reconstructionist for Breaking Non-profit rule of getting involved with Politics.
And thats my Opinion.
Evangelicals should be ashamed for picking a bald faced liar! There's no other way to discribe Rick Santorum!
Rick Santorum: "But he also earmarks more than anybody else in the Congress, and then doesn't vote for the spending that the earmarks are in."
As you know, earmarks were not disclosed until 2007 -- conveniently for you, the same year you left congress. However, during your time in congress, you were known for your earmarks and support of federal programs which were popular in Pennsylvania. ( )
In 2011, there were 39,530 earmarks, totaling $129.9 billion. With 535 congressmen, that's an average of 74 earmarks, totaling $242.7 million per member of congress.
Ron Paul had 41 of those earmarks, with a total of $157.1 million. In his own state ( ):
Silvestre Reyes (D TX-16) requested 48 earmarks, totaling $159.7 million
Al Green (D TX-9) requested 73 earmarks, totaling $541.7 million
Eddie Bernice (D TX-30) requested 69 earmarks, totaling $287.6 million
Chet Edwards (D TX-17) requested 119 earmarks, totaling $212 million
Ciro Rodriguez (D TX-23) requested 88 earmarks, totaling $412.9 million
Henry Cuella (D TX-28) requested 94 earmarks, totaling $783.8 million
Ruben Hinojosa (D TX-15) requested 46 earmarks, totaling $171.4 million
Solomon Ortize (D TX-27) requested 98 earmarks, totaling $588.5 million
Sheila Jackson-Lee (D TX-18) requested 69 earmarks, totaling $752.5 million
Sen. John Cornyn (R TX) requested 54 earmarks, totaling $170.8 millio
Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R TX) requested 118 earmarks, totaling $744 million
Clearly, Ron Paul doesn't "earmark more than anybody else in the Congress." That is a lie, Mr. Santorum.
And by the way, he was nowhere near first place in 2010 either -- even in his own state! ( )
You, on the other hand, voted for H.R. 3058 -- $398 billion for a bridge to nowhere. Can you guess who one of the 19 "nays" were? That's right, Ron Paul.
Turns out, you even went to South Carolina and told everyone that Jim DeMint was wrong on earmarks! ( ) Don't suppose you'll be expecting that endorsement, eh?
The stupid supporting the stupid that leads the stupid (the sheeple).
ah yes, leave it to evangelicals to back the wrong people yet again. I wonder how long it will take them to define their politics through their bibles instead of interpretting their bibles through their political views. I don't seem to recall anything in the bible about stealing from the poor to feed the rich but I do recall passages that say God determines who the leaders are and that they should obey them. Seems to me that voting would put you in danger of being against god by voting against HIS choice. And voting against the incumbent? Heaven Forbid that's an outright declaration that you disagree with GOD and don't think HIS choice is the right one... Wonder how HE will take it? probably the same as he does all the rest of christian hypocrisy and hype. I also could never find anything in their book about hating your neighbor because he had different political views, creating fear and hate in others or deceiving people through spin, lies and political rhetoric.. But isn't that just the way of it? Us poor "godless liberals" (wonder how the christian liberals feel about that accusation?) just can't understand all that unprovable stuff that only faith in ancient desert tribal mythology will shed light upon.
GOOD ONES tapdancingirl and Magnum Serpentine. Shame the Religious won't listen and the IRS won't do it's duty. Maybe if they'd nail some of those preachers for violating their legal restrictions to keep their non profit charitable status, just perhaps some of the lies would quit foaming out of their collective mouths.
Egilman
Here in Washington all voting is by mail also, and there was massive proven voter fraud in the 2004 election for governor. COURT PROVEN voter fraud. I'm surprised that you in Oregon didn't hear about it, it made the National News!
So you prefer to spread lies like all conservatives seem prone to do? IF, as you say, it was "proven in court" then why was it not overturned immediately? It WASN'T because in FACT what happened was that Rossi decided to challenge the 3rd ballot count (the FIRST HAND COUNT, the other 2 were machine counts with a KNOWN margin of error), but instead of pay for one more hand count he filed charges in an obscure republican county where he knew he would get a republican judge and the judge told him he was full of it and THREW IT OUT for lack of evidence.
mike430, don97524 & Star Wizard
Read'em and weep boys, And before you want to take me on again, generally most who know me on here know I can usually back up my statements, not only was ther voting fraud in '04 it happened again in '07 also....
After you peruse the URLS below you may try again....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_gubernatorial_election,_2004
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003760004_webvoterfraud23.html
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1872341/posts
michellemalkin.com/2007/07/26/acorn-falls-again-the-worst-case-of-voter-registration-fraud-in-washington-state-history/
This! This! A thousand times, this! Thank you, Star Wizard!
Um - you need to check the other years that Ron Paul was in Congress, not just 2011.
2010 Ron Paul was one of only 4 Republicans who requested earmarks when the republicans had pledged not to ask for earmarks. Paul requested 54 earmarks and got 45. In 2009 he requested 55, in 2007 25.
Egilman -
According to those articles there was indeed voting fraud in 2007, but not evidence that there was any in 2004. If I read the articles correctly, the 2007 voter fraud did not result in any votes being cast, but rather 1,800 or so unlawful registrations. The offenders were prosecuted and found guilty.
All you liberals collapsing my post with the link to the hidden camera proof on how easy it is to commit voter fraud in a non-ID state really don't like the absolute proof do you?
Just for all you guys that don't like proof I'll repost it here...
dailycaller.com/2012/01/11/video-nh-poll-workers-shown-handing-out-ballots-in-dead-peoples-names/
All you liberals calling for truth huh?
So now who is it that don't want the truth out there?
Egilman - This the same twerp who put on a pimp's outfit to out Acorn, invaded Senator Mary Landrieu's office and is now on probation and as the Governor of New Hampshire said "you don't commit a crime to prove a crime" This Sullivan kid is in deep trouble, he violated his probaition and has committed a crime
Egilman, unless I am reading a different Wikipedia than you are, there was no voter fraud in Washington in 2004. An administrative mistake was made, causing some votes to not be counted. Other ballots were found that were never counted. Locally, it was determined that these votes should be counted so no individual or group could claim the election was invalid. The Republican party sued to block these voted, it was appealed to the Supreme Court (does not say whether that was the court in Washington or SCOTUS), and the court ruled the votes should be counted. No voter fraud, but an attempt by the Republican party to not count legal votes. Going back to your original argument, there is no evidence that lack of voter ID contributes to voter fraud. Try reading your own references, and take off your Fox News, Rush Limbaugh tinted glasses before you do.
Not really news. The Christian right picked one of the two remaining actual candidates that they could support who are still in it and one of those has recieved "Last Rites". All this does is pull the shroud over Perry. Nothing more. Soon there will be no candidate that meets their criteria. Romney doesn't. Gingrich really doesn't match it in many ways starting with ethics. He would sell them out in a heartbeat and most of them know it. Huntsman doesn't and is soon to be done. Ron Paul's state's right's stance on drugs and abortion means he does not measure up. They just killed Perry. Soon without a third party run (only Paul is strong enough) by some unknown they will either vote for Romney or stay home. Since they never vote Democrat anyway voting Romney or staying home matters little.
The Family Research Council, led by professional bigot Tony Perkins, is classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. At one time, Perkins & his group paid millions to the KKK for their mailing list. Congratulations Santorum, you're disgusting enough to be endorsed by professional bigots, racists, misogynists, hate mongers & affiliated scum.
These christians are the sleaziest, most hypocritical slime balls I have ever experienced. Santorum huh? Voted the most crooked politician (I bet there was a lot of competition for that honor), couldn't get re-elected in his own state, but he throws out a couple of hallelujahs and a thank you jesus and now he 's their man. Of course I do understand ole Ricky probably learned all his tricks from them to begin with.
Ron Paul, who is a more decent human being than any of the ones running, probably combined and they don't even consider him. Sure they'll bring up the electability issue, but hey christians, ever heard of principle????
I can't wait for the day kids ask their parents "mommy what is religion?"
HChris & John in PA,
Open this link and scroll down to where they discuss the '04 WA election and read where the Superior Court ruled on actual fraud committed in that election...
Then come back and tell me it didn't happen. A State Court Ruled that it did.
www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23731
Wonder if those were Zionist calvary christian members.
Barbara J,
I understand what he did was illegal but it does not excuse the ease in which he exposed how easy it is to commit voter fraud without showing ID.
A better argument would be that showing the ID would not stop you from doing the very same thing...
For goodness sake Egilman, it is an opinion piece on an admittedly conservative web site. It is OPINION, it is not fact. I'll stand by my first comment. Like I said, take off your right wing colored glasses and then go back and read the Wikipedia account of the 2004 election. Moreover, it had nothing to do with voters having or not having ID to vote.
Obviously they are all idiots since they support an idiot!!
If this clown would be the nominee, I vote outside of Republican - count on it! This jerk could not be elected his own shadow because he is slimy.
Santorum is a Catholic and father of seven who strongly opposes abortion and gay rights.
-------------------------------------
Why is it the rethugli-con party wants nothing more than send us back to the stone age. Thier agenda is straight out Taliban.
John in NW PA
For god's sake!
I don't care what the site's nor the reporter's opinion is, they Reported a FACT! All I'm doing is reporting the single FACT!
No matter who's opinion it is, the Fact is a Fact, A WA Court reviewed the Evidence and concluded there was over 1500 instances of Voter fraud in the '04 Election.
It's a fact it can't be explained away or excused, your opinions and my opinions are irrelevant! it's a fact.
Fact's are Facts! Get over it!
santorum is tits on a boar hog - he's THAT worthless. The people of Pennsylvania threw the bastard out of office after they discovered his TRUE (NEGATIVE) worth. Add to that his politics seem more closely related to Attila the Hun or maybe Adolph than anyone currently alive.
now that having been said - santorum has ZERO chance of getting the nomination (even if the rightwinghnutreligionazis back him with every scent (sic, I know what I said) they have. happily, there aren't enough of them to make a MAJOR difference (of course, when Mitt becomes the nominee, they will just not vote for him (they won't vote for a heathen mormon - they'd rather not vote at all then vote "that way". The net result, of course, will be to usher Obama into another 4 years (ain't it GREAT??)
Anyway - I have a better chance of being elected POTUS than santorum (and I'm not even RUNNING)
@Egilman -- @Barbara Adams Jackson -- @John in NW PA
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-08-01/news/29990966_1_bar-code-problem-bars-ids
Is requiring IDs to vote going to prevent voter fraud - or - just make it more expensive?
Of all of the stupid, anti-American things to value in a president, religion should be one of the lowest. But this country is full of morons who think that believing in a particularly popular sun god makes someone uniquely qualified.
If you're voting for Rick Santorum because of... well, ANY religious reason, count yourselves amongst those that are generally considered America's enemies. You're an anti-democratic theocrat. You're an embarrassment to the idea of our country. This man, and most others who flaunt their religion as a reason to vote for them, usually have little else of value. Obama's embraced religion far too much for my liking, even, so don't think that I'm speaking as someone who's merely anti-Republican. But let's face it, Republicans treat religion as if it were going to solve our economic woes. It's funny how the most evangelical president we've ever had, George W Bush, also had more hardship befall us all collectively in at least a generation, if not 2.
He kept sliding out of it...
Egilman... No your "Facts" are NOT Facts they are opinions. And of the "Invalid Ballots" found in the 2004 election ALL FIVE OF THEM, FOUR were for ROSSI and 1 was for an independant, so if you wish to do as ROSSI tried to do that would mean that 80% of the "FRAUDULENT BALLOTS" were cast for ROSSI and 20% were cast for Independants and therefore Gregoire won by much more than 133 votes (not 129, read your own references). I WILL correct my own statement though, the Judge did NOT throw out the case but he DID rule AGAINST Rossi and the GOP claims 'for lack of evidence'. However that doesn't stop the GOP and Conservative SPINmeisters from trying to make things look different. To top it off the man certifying the ballots, the election and the winner was a REPUBLICAN!!! So stop with the sour grapes, your side lost, though I must admit I'd have rather seen a much bigger margin of win. As for any "National News" it wasn't about "Voter Fraud" it was about it being the closest election in history. Again the SPIN from the RIGHT is intolerable. ANYTHING TO WIN.. RIGHT Egilman!!!
IF the GOP and the Tea Party ever want my vote they need to drop the draconian NAZI tactics of Hate, Fear, Deception and scapegoating. IF YOU CAN'T be honest, have an honest dialogue with REAL FACTS, not spin then you can't expect to win a thinking man's vote. And since the "Moral Majority" got in bed with the GOP (Reagan's election in 1980) ALL I ever see from the RIGHT is LIES, SPIN, DECEIT, Fear Mongering, Hate Mongering, Stereotyping, Scapegoating, temper tantrums, finger pointing (forgetting that when you point ONE finger at someone else there are FOUR pointing back at YOU!!)
When I don't see "morality" packaged in such a black and negative way, when finding solutions not "winning" is the goal, THEN, and ONLY THEN will I consider voting GOP again..
Being endorsed by a flock of evangelicals will move votes in both directions... he may win the right fringe only to completely lose center and even right of center. Santorum has always had no chance for anything even resembling left... bottom line? Loser.
Star Wizard,
I'll take a judge's opinion of the evidence over yours any day....
Nerm_L,
I normally don't quote myself but as I said to Barbara...
Bob, you will be dead and blown to dust before that ever happens.
The day after the last Christian courageous enough to stand with Christ to face with dignity the relentless jeers and taunts of the proud, arrogant, lying, bitter, hateful, monstrous, murderous atheists,
is the day before this whole planet explodes into a fireball and from that into smoke that ascends up forever and ever,
and a New Heavens and a New Earth is made to replace it.
Your evil fantasy of a world without God is a myth-fiction delusion that cannot ever happen anywhere.
"If I make my bed in hell, behold, Thou [God] are there."
I, John, will still be here to call you a liar for as long as you can ever live, atheist,
if I have to do it from out of the dust of the Earth.
egilman,
The only significant recent voter fraud occurred in Florida in 2000. The closing and manipulating the times of polling places, intimidation, misinformation - the only way to eliminate voter fraud is to outlaw the republicking party. Requiring state picture id is simply a way of suppressing the vote.
Egilman, how about this?
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Judge-upholds-Gregoire-s-election-Rossi-won-t-1175262.php
There were proven instances of registration fraud, yes. As in, people made up fake names and registered fake voters. The defendants I believe say they were trying to boost their registration counts for more money, not influence the election, and how could they? Sorry Rossi lost the election, I know it still stings. What does registration fraud have to do with postal voting?
This is especially for Puh-lease . An English marching song beloved by all :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG78M7g9wRo
Oh, stop blaming the Evangelicals for giving their support to Santorum. After all, they prayed to find out who to choose. They can't be blamed for the instructions they receive from their almighty god.
What a freakin' joke. Why not pray to win lotto so they can use that money to contribute to Santorum's campaign. Seems just as likely as praying to find out which loser they should vote for.
So much for seperation of church and state.
Just FYI, here in Texas, between 2002-2007 we had 22 cases of voter fraud (according to the Texas AG's office). 17 of which were done by mail. The other 5 were people done by people who owned property in 2 different counties and voted twice. So tell me again, just how showing your ID at a voting poll is going to stop voter fraud, when about 75% of it is done by mail. How does showing your ID stop someone from voting twice if they are registered in 2 counties? One would figure there'd be some way to do this, but as of yet, no solutions that are practical. Showing your ID to vote will NOT stop voter fraud.
fact: Every system known by man is infallible and at times malfunctions...airplanes do fall out the sky as do space shuttles, regardless how much money time and effort goers into making sure those things don't and can't happen.
Voter fraud is no different, it does and will happen but just like the airplanes falling out of the sky the occurrences are so rare percentage wise that air travel is consider the safest way to fly and voter fraud percentages so small that voter fraud is considered totally inconsequential and has never swayed an election, except perhaps when it is the system itself and not individual voters committing the fraud (see, FL 2000 election).
Given the tiny amount of individual voter fraud historically, these new attempts to disenfranchise large portions of the electorate via voter ID requirements is clearly are nothing more than Jim Crow revisited.
And because it is being perpetrated solely by Republicans, it demonstrates two things: 1) irresctive of their claims to the contrary, Republicans do not care about the sanctity of one-man-one-vote principle and 2) Republicans themselves are acutely aware that their party and policies do not reflect the majority of the population and must therefore bias the system in their favor by any means available.
oops...1) irresctive = 1) irrespective
Didn't these so called "fundamentalists" (the only part of fundamentalist they are interested in is the FUND part) back McCain / Palin Ticket in the last election......sorry Rick you are on your way out.
@culheath I suppose you also meant to start "man is fallible". QED :)
Agree with you underlying point, although there could always be improvements to reduce fraud. It does appear the ID requirements are partisan attempts to limit turnout of certain demographics.
yeah "fallible" was what I meant...rule #1...don't type before coffee in the morning. Thanks for the catch. :)
sure...but from what I've read and garnered from various quarters is that voter fraud is so low that it is considered inconsequential in that whatever individual fraud there is has never even come close to swaying an election result.
Is someone in Texas is registered in 2 different counties then that is a problem with how Texas handled their voter registration since you have to provide your drivers license number when registering to vote.
Egilman,
I just read the article you posted. According to the article there was voter fraud - but it could not be determined who the guilty party was. For all we know it could have been Republicans who committed the fraud. I agree that voter fraud is bad - it is anathema to our democratic values. But there is not sufficient evidence to say that Gregoire stole the 2004 election here in WA.
Also, it is not unheard of for a biased publication (liberal or conservative) to be more than a little loose with the facts. I will take the article at face value, however they don't cite any sources on the website, they don't cite the court case they reference. How am I to know for certain that what they claim is true?
The American Taliban has spoken. Obey!
A group of 150 influential Christian conservative leaders on Saturday backed former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum as their choice for Republican U.S. presidential nominee.
WOW! that really represent most of the population in the US / Sarcasm.
Rick Santorum can't be President. He is the new sanctimonious hypocrite against every advancement for gays and women in this country.
None of the candidates were born in the USA.
My exposure to Santorum reveals him to be a smug double-talker who never seems to provide straight answers to the questions addressed to him. His responses always seem evasive, as though they float in the air...until forgotten.
I suspect that the "evangelicals" support Santorum precisely because his evanescent responses coincide with their own narrow and unrealistic worldview.
Very few others see him that way. The knock on him is too conservative.
EarlyOut
You should have said.....
The American Taliban has spoken. Obey or die.
blasphemerooo, Huntsman was Born in the U.S.A., The rest are foreigners !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
santorum is a fourth class @!$%#ing IDIOT. His supporters fall into the fifth class
teavangelicals suck big ones
"Silence! I keel you!"
I would give a damn if he was running to be the Pope.
On the other hand, if this homophobe bigot wins the primaries, he will be easy to defeat.
The stupid supporting the stupid that leads the stupid (the sheeple).
Tax all church and religions and end their free ride ion America, or shut them all down.
Oh no! The christianists are going to force santorum law on all of us!
They must be stopped!
this is a clear reason that at least the evangelical churches should be taxed, churches are supposed to stay out of politics and the government doesn't tax them. clearly, the evangelicals don't get it.
Leave it to evangelicals to support a man who has zero chance of winning the general election, even if he did somehow win the nomination. It just provides further proof, if any were needed, of their irrelevance in the 21st century.
Hey, Danwill, the Catholics are doing it as well -- preaching politics and who you should vote for from the pulpit.
I don't care, just shouldn't be tax free.
which is why I said "at least" :)
if there is preaching of politics from the pulpit, then a church should lose their tax-exempt status
Science flies you to the moon
Religion flies you into buildings
If you don't pray in my school I won't think in your church
Thank You, Evangelical Christian Leaders For Supporting Rick Santorum in a attempt to control the Republican presidential nominee ......... You have provided him with the Kiss of Death in his chances to win even the nomination!
The beauty of the American Constitution Is the concept that everyone may practice their faith without government interference or intervention. As religious leaders you cant be happy with the right you enjoy, with tolerance enough to let the political system be executed in a fair and impartial manner without your collective interference even in the parties choice of candidates!
May a Almighty God put a pox on all you houses for your unholiness!
Way to pick a loser.
Just for the record, "conservative Christian," is an oxymoron, since Jesus Christ's ministry was radically liberal. He saved his most serious criticism for the conservative, organized, religious parties of his day (the Sadducees, and the Pharisees), calling them things like beautified coffins, full of rotting bodies.
Anyone that has actually read Matthew through John should know that. If you wonder if you're a Christian, and you're fruits are those of a conservative, the Bible says that you should worry (Matthew 25).
Imagine my shock. /facepalm/
There are only 2 things I find surprising in this story: 1) that they took 3 ballots to make the decision; and 2) that Santorum's nearest rival was Gingrich.
On second thought, given the often hypocritical attitudes of ultra-conservative evangelicals, I guess only the first point is a real surprise. And how sad is that?
First. This is pure media slant that most of you fell for. This group meets periodically, this was a regular event. Every 4 years they endorse a candidate.
Second. I heard an interview, they were quite suprised to find out that they had called a meeting to stop Romney.
-but who's on top?
Its simple to understand-- the group doesn't really want Romney to win, but will support him over Obama.
Evangelical Christian backing is reason enough not to vote for this clown.
when the churches hold meetings for political influence for those who follow their teachings those churches should lose their exempt status with the internal revenue service..............wonder which would be more important to them, the money or standing in support of one man---not GOD or CHRIST----as he runs for an office where he alone will have power and attain wealth.
Preach politics from the pulpit and lose your tax exempt standing......should be the law.
What business does God have in politics anyway?..............being omnipotent has its perks--no need to back anyone because you are above all and capable of absolute power. Maybe these churches have lost faith.................maybe they feel God has abandon them and so they are on their own and NEED to step into politics.
Church and politics are dangerous bedfellows...........throughout history these two, when merged, have caused insurmountable death and damage.
As soon as a candidate starts preaching his faith I write them off........
I notice Tebow is making commercials now............faith and capitalism...........that has always been a marriage made in heaven ( or here on earth as it were).
I wonder if the group was the Zionist Christian Calvary Church being they support Armageddon ideas so they can decide when Christ will return. I was looking at Rick "SANITORIUM" statements from the may 5th GOP Debate in South Carolina and he said, quote " Obama has done right in his continuation of the BUSH policy's. He's gone right by keeping Iraq & Afghan wars going. Obamas strategic decisions were wrong. He's gotten it wrong every single time on Columbia to Honduras, rather it's in the middle east with Egypt, with Syria, and with Iran and did not take the opportunity's to attack them.
Agreed. To quote Star Trek 5 (as much as I loathe that movie) - "What does God need with a starship?" To apply this quote to the topic at hand - "What does God need with [Rick Santorum]?"
If you read the gospel accounts, you often see that Jesus Christ was careful to avoid politics. In fact, his followers often mistakenly thought that, as the Messiah, he would lead a revolution against the Romans. However, when being questioned by Pontius Pilate, Jesus made it clear that his kingdom "was no part of this world". (John 18:36) So, while Jesus preached for the need to pay taxes and obey the laws (pay back Caesars things to Caesar - Matthew 22:21), he did NOT preach a message of politics or revolution. His "revolution" was spiritual, not political.
For Christians today, it is insulting to God to imply that he acts by means of a dysfunctional human government full of greedy, hypocritical liars. Yet, there are evangelical leaders who truly believe that God uses the US government to carry out his will. This has no basis in any scripture but does make for a convenient way to get votes from the religiously inclined and subject to believing whatever someone else tells them.
No, the current world governments better illustrate what the Bible says at Jeremiah 10:23, Ecclesiasted 8:9, 1 John 5:19, and Revelation 12:9, 12. Curious? Why don't you look them up? While you are at it, read Daniel chapter 2 and pay special attention to verse 44. Then, Evangelicals, ask yourself, "What impact does this have on my choice for a president?"
To sumarize, the Lord's Prayer does not say, "Rick Santorum come, thy will be done on Earth..."
...................................................Evangelical leaders back Santorum.......................................................
He just lost. :)
I don't get it...
So now all Evangelicals are supposed to support Santorum????
They want to control of your life and your choices.
Are you telling me that grown Evangelicals can't decide on their own who to vote for????
"What this article is saying is that all Evangelicals can't think for themselves and must require a leader to help them make political choices."
I'm sorry but, if you can't take the right path and figure out what's right from wrong as a grown up or who to vote for in elections then I don't believe that you are grown enough to make decisions for your children!!!!!!!
In spite of the fact that he holds some decidedly unChristian views....
Hummmmmmmmmmmm Is this the "God" Housekeeping Seal of Approval?
I'd be really careful about letting Mitt hold that baby. When he gets tired of it he might just put it in a cage on top of his car!!!!
As if we needed another reason NOT to vote for him
Ok I am an independent and been somewhat not committed to any candidate yet. I never had any problems with one's religion, but I saw a program on the BBC and then on The Word channel about Mormon beliefs I think that Romney should be questioned on. Seriously, after seeing both programs I did a little research on my on of the writings of Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon. Did you know that Mormon believe that they can become God on Earth? I didnt know this until Friday, but ignored it until Sunday when the great, great granddaughter of Brigham Young and her husband, former members, of the LDS church shared detailed doctrine to verify the "God on Earth" issue. I know these are just attacks on Romney but, I really would like to see his position on this issue and what it means to him. I don't know if I want someone with a God complex in the Whitehouse.
I think a president that says that they talk directly to God is just as bad as one that thinks they can become God on Earth. Romney, pathetic as he may be, isn't likely to try to pull THAT card. And even if he did, an army of Christians is likely to shout him down tout suite.
There are better reasons to hate Romney than his Mormonism. Religion shouldn't even be a discussion point. They're all completely ridiculous and full of moronic quirks that really just outward projections of specific people's personal opinions. Not even their religious beliefs, but personal OPINIONS. Christians have rationalized away the rule that said they couldn't eat pork or shellfish by saying that Jesus said it was cool, but somehow, "Love everyone" still means, "hate gay people". That entire aspect of religion, whatever type of Abrahamic religion you choose to believe, all comes down to some guy thinking that men shouldn't rape other men after conquering them, and some guy interpreting that as "God hates queers".
pamela, I just last week heard some lunatic radio evangelical telling people that after the tribulations, the "chosen" "will come back to earth and be able to walk through walls and read peoples minds to enforce their righteous rule"
so, we have a bunch of evangilicals that are just bat-spit insane too
Did you know that Mormon believe that they can become God on Earth?
No, I didn't know that but I did hear that evangelical don't like Catholics... Now that surprised me...
Right. Back the guy who is running to head the American Taliban movement, who sees himself as preacher in chief, and head of a new theocracy, who has actually publically stated women should be prevented from using contraceptives and not yet been laughed off the national stage. Is there a way to make yourselves even more irrelevant as a political force?
They are so scary. would put enyone different down. Remember the Inquisition guys!
Santorum has publicly stated that any woman who gets an abortion should be tried for 1st degree murder and imprisoned for life or executed. Of course his own wife is exempt. He signed off on an abortion when her life was in jeopardy from an infection in the dying fetus she was carrying. As he stated on his blog, his wife was too important to lose. Too bad he doesn't feel the other men should have the same right to save their wife's life, and God forbid ANY woman have the right to protect her own life.
Of course, Santorum could have been motivated by political expediency. What would his chances of getting elected be had he allowed his wife to die and leave their seven children orphaned?
It isn't exactly the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. ;-) Nonetheless, it's always useful to know where the .5 wit neanderthal misogynist homophobes are grouped as they stand around the campfire, praying and sharpening their weapons ... though one can generally smell them a mile away.
Sad to even think of any evangelical crap in association with a political office. That in itself is extremely wrong and scary.
Those people are nuts as it is and I would not want any of these yahoos to influence anything in this country.
The evangelicals are a lot like locusts in my area.They've attempted to get "one of their own" in every local elected position of any consequence every so often when they believe(erroneously)their numbers and local acceptance of their ministries consequate to acceptance of their particular views as electable .They succeeded once recently in 2002, electing to county sheriff a disability -granted former state division of natural resources officer/part time evangelical "preacher"as a "christ-based" Sheriff in the wake of 9/11,early Bush-lite mania.County sheriff is well paid,well respected position with quite a budget,staff and equipment where we live.In 2006 he was reelected with little opposition,in 2007 his office was investigated by the state and federal tax authorities,justice department at both levels prosecuted for fraud,embezzelment,missuse of authority,failure to follow civil service employment requirements for hiring and advancement,and a couple dozen other charges.Now he's in a federal prison livin the lifestyle,repenting regularly in the local right wing ragg,asking prayer groups to pray for his ministry with the inmates etc.etc.
He was and is little more than a lying thief.
Now the Church of Christ-ers and a few of the less radical Baptist groups show up at the polls in sufficient numbers to avoid repeating this groups influence.So they go away for a while,make some more babies,fill'em with religious dogma,leave them ignorant from their unaccredited bible schools,and poof ;they're back again,trying to control local tea-politics.
Personally.. I want nothing to do with the whole batch,from whatever religion they espouse,like the current version of Repubecans; they are polically insignificant.
Obama will be President again...and the polically insignifcant tea-publican party will continue its hatred,Lush Dimbulb will support it,and Billblow o'righty will villify all who oppose it "un-Amerikan socialists"
Sounds normal**** It appears that the Santorum is really frothing-up with this group of batsh*t crazy evangelical gerbils.Texass was the perfect location for this "highly influential"group to meet and then not endorse Perry,having apparently decided his "week" was over,and Richard ("big dick" to his former constituents)Santorum had another week of minor influence left before also becoming inconsequential in the history of failed potential presidential nominees.
Its no wonder the entire nation starts to laugh when Letterman and Leno begin a sentence with......"today,Republicans.........."
The funniest part of this whole story is a big group of bible thumpers meet in Texas and back Santorum and not Perry Wonder how much time Perry spent on his knees this weekend. LOL
If the evangelicals are so influential in political matters, why are they tax exempt?
How much money could be raised by taxing all the religions around this country? I know the Mormon church is filthy rich and if I only had back what I gave to the catholic church.... Hmmm...
These people do not believe in the separation of church and state, so the rest of us need to be very, very afraid of them. And vote accordingly.
Most republican don't believe in the separation of church and state. They will tell you they do, and in the next breath tell you that we should have Christian prayer in the schools.
Republicans believe the country is headed in the wrong direction. It is the direction that they pointed the country in and spent the last four years doing everything in their power to prevent fixing. They will lead us straight to the 12th Century if they are running things.
The 12th? My guess is the 6th....dark ages indeed...
Ed, not afraid. Angry is more like it. If you become afraid of them then you become apathetic and allow them to gain power. If you are angry you take to the streets and protest or build up some kind of movement to protest their growing power of the country.
Fear is never the right emotion to have in politics, it opens you up to propaganda and manipulation. The Patriot Act is a prime example. It was greeted by cheering because the fascists played on people's fears of terrorism to take away some of their freedoms.
Quite a few people are illogically afraid of terrorists, they think of them as the boogieman or ninjas or something that can just pop out of nowhere and blow them up. It is truly a load and while a certain level of skepticism is needed the level the Government has levied against us is off the charts compared to what is acceptable given these circumstances.
That is how the Patriot Act and the NDAA got passed with little resistance, Congress and the voters were played by a select few that know how to peddle in information warfare to scare them into vote and supporting for these unconstitutional bills.
Geowil
Bravo!!!!! You are so right.
We should all be angry with these so called ""religious conservatives" their nothing but fascists hiding behind the bible. If they were to gain full control of government by using their puppet GOP politicians, average Americans would have to kiss their rights goodbye. The best way to fight these un-American fools is to get very angry and mobilize everyone you know to vote AGAINST all "conservative" right wing extremists. EarlyOut-1524710 was right by referring to these people as "The American Taliban".
You got that right Big Al! Separation of church and state... end of debate! Any candidate who stands at a podium and advocates the loss of civil liberties for any American citizen is not the right man for the presidency of the United State of America.
This includes our current president (for whom I have been an avid supporter) who signed a very scary law into effect granting the military the power to arrest and detain American citizens, on American soil, indefinitely. Osama is laughing in his grave right now. Wake up America and stand up for your rights to live, love and worship as you see fit.
This election should be about governance not civic control, social order and religious power plays.
JohnDevine
Yes they do, they just don't think it means banishment to Siberia like a lot of posters on here would like.
And there is only one candidate that is calling for constitutional law being supreme, not "claiming" they are for the constitution.
Just in case you don't already know who he is, his name is Ron Paul..... ;-0) the only one of the bunch worthy of holding the office!
Egilman - stop with the Ron Paul - this guy should be running as a Independent - he's done nothing in Congress except get earmarks for his district and his son Rand Paul is an idiot The man has voted NO for everything - go home old man and publish your rascist - homophobic periodicals
Gee this Acorn deal sounds just like the 1800 that submitted false refrigeration for Newt just last week.
One has to remember, these are all verified against signatures. They would have never turned to votes.
Seems the repubtards are so scared, they have to restrict legally registered voters from voting.
Why are they so scared of early voting? Just want to make it difficult for old people to stand on long lines to vote.
I hope Santorum does get the nomination,...it will be greased skids for Obama all the way.
Barbara J,
Why should I, are you liberals all of a sudden going to stop supporting your chosen candidate?
I didn't think so, I don't particularly like some of the far out claims made by the liberals but you have your right to post them as do I,
I'm sorry you do not like someone posting about a candidate you do not like or against issues you support, but that is what America is all about, anything else is unamerican....
Egibman: I totally support your right to support and vote for the candidate of his choice.
I think that Mr. Paul is either a racist, or too incompetent to keep track of what people claim he's saying. Either way, I don't think he's qualified to be President, and I hope he doesn't end up there.
But if you want to support him, that's your right. Don't go manufacturing "oppression" where it doesn't exist.
Ummmm......you might want to ask yourself why Ron Paul wrote the "We the People Act", which would have allowed the states to return to being theocracies. The moron submits that unconstitutional bill every legislative session.
Paul also fully supports DOMA and wrote the odious "Marriage Protection Act", and until very recently supported DADT. He seems to think gays should be 2nd-class citizens.
Ron Paul hides his entire agenda of discrimination behind the "states rights" theory. He knows very well if he can get all these decisions returned to the states, many of them will revert to pre-civil rights days, women's rights will be obliterated, gays will be prosecuted, and other assorted nasties. Fifty little theocratic fiefdoms. Mini-Talibans.
Among many reasons, one reason I could never support Ron Paul is this:
both quotes from huffingtonpost.com in an article dated 1/1/12
Santorum is part of the Dominionist movement. This movement calls for establishing America as a theocracy under Biblical law,with the US Constitution relegated to a mere historical document. Other religious beliefs would be outlawed. Women and minorities would be stripped of first-class citizenship and women would be reduced to chattel of their fathers until marriage and their husbands afterward. That's right...women would be property, although they label it "responsibility".
He wants to end social services that assist the poor because suffering turns people to God, and providing people with food stamps, WIC for their children under age 5, medicaid, medicare, Social Security and SSI/disability, and subsidized housing apparently keeps them from turning to God and depending on the church to provide these things.
Extramarital sex and homosexuality would be criminal offences and the hardliners in the Dominionists call for capital punishment of these "crimes". Birth control and family planning would be outlawed and no - married couples would NOT be allowed to decide for themselves. Some of these idiots would ban all sexual techniques except the missionary position, and oral sex would be a crime.
What is it with the GOP? They want to let banks and corporation run amok to abuse, exploit, and pollute without any regulations but they want to micromanage our personal lives right down to the most intimate moments. They will fight to the death to protect a child before birth and then treat it like trash afterwards. They claim to honor God but act like they've been giving the Devil himself lessons on how to lie, cheat, and steal. They claim to love America and want to preserve the Constitution and yet their policies are aimed at destroying our country and Constitution. They claim to cherish freedom but would see us in de facto if not actual slavery.
Are you claiming that everyone in the GOP is for all that "Dominionist" stuff you talked about? I can assure you that you are way off base if that is the case. I am a republican and I have known lots of VERY conservative evangelicals for years-the tea party type of conservatives-and I can tell you without reservation that this Dominionist movement you guys talk about is either a very small fringe element or it doesn't exist. Not a single one of the people I know or the people they know who are scattered around the country-and they consider me too liberal even though I am a republican-is trying to set up a theocracy, relegate the Constitution to merely historical status, outlaw anyone's religious beliefs, strip anyone's citizenship status, or reduce women to chattel. That is hysterical nonsense. I have hung around with the very people you are discussing, and they aren't doing those things, nor do they believe those things-in fact, they push FOR the Constitution. There are individuals who probably have some of those crazy beliefs, but they are only individuals-there's no movement. I disagree with friends and family in the far right on a number of issues, but there is no movement like you are describing-if there is, it is a seriously fringe element that no one needs to take seriously.
You obviously have not been paying attention to the Bachmanns, Palins, Ghomerts, Angles, and others who are Dominionists. Santorum is a Dominionist of a different stripe IMO. Since he claims to be catholic, I would put that theocratic fascist in the realm of catholic apologists. The so called defenders of the faith. He is no different than these evangelical scum pushing their fascist views on people. Listen to Santorum! Listen to Bachmann, Palin, Ghomert, Angle! They all talk about taking America back. Indeed they will. Back to the dark ages. The economy is a very convenient key for them to gain entry into government. From there they can inflict a lot of damage through laws. We see it happening already in some states who elected these fascist pigs. I will fight this ugly, theocratic/corporate fascist scourge to my death.
Allison Shaw
Yes!
http://www.discernment-ministries.org/ChristianImperialism.htm
The only place I hear about this dominion stuff is in hysterical liberal articles. Not a single one of my tea party supporting friends is into any of this or has ever said a word about anything like it. When conservatives talk about "taking back America" they are not talking about "dominion theology" or forming a theocracy. They are talking about electing people who share their values, which is no different from what liberals do-they elect people who share their values. I have told my conservative friends over and over again that independents and liberals will get the wrong idea when they say things like "taking back America," but they don't listen to me. Anyway, none of the "Dominionist" people Mike listed are even in the race-except Santorum; and I'll bet Mike would be hard pressed to find statements in context where Santorum actually said he wanted to establish a theocracy or take away anyone's citizenship or relegate the Constitution to a historical document or outlaw religious beliefs other than Christianity or reduce women to chattel. And I've been dying to ask: is Santorum against ALL birth control or only certain forms of it? I discovered this information regarding his remarks that people have seized to say he will ban contraception:
from washingtonpost.com
And there was this:
from suntimes.com
I looked up the salon article, and it only quoted the part where Santorum stated his moral opposition to birth control. As far as I know, salon never addressed Santorum's explanation or his statement that he would not impose his moral beliefs on the nation. That would be akin to never addressing Kennedy's speech where he assured the nation that the church would not speak for him.
Ummmm......Santorum has explicitly condemned JFK's statement, and thinks that his Catholic sharia laws should be enforced through secular law.
Santorum is a Christofascist, plain & simple.
Yet he clearly said that he would not impose his morals on the American people with regards to birth control. Do you seriously think other politicians don't use their values in their decision making processes? Why do you think there are laws against discrimination on the basis of race? You don't think that had to do with people believing it was morally wrong to discriminate in the workplace? It was Christians like William Wilberforce who led the charge against slavery because they believed it was morally wrong. Why are laws being passed against bullying? Don't you think people believe it is morally wrong and that it hurts others? People believe that it is morally wrong for everyone not to have equal rights. It's not a convenience thing, right? It's a moral one. President Obama and Hilary Clinton recently made a speech encouraging the world to accept gays as equals in everything and not to discriminate. So don't all politicians make decisions based on their morals and values? How is Santorum any different except that you don't agree with his values?
seen too much
And of course, he is to be believed on everything he says, right?
No, actually what he's said is that he opposes Griswold v Connecticut, and thinks the states should be allowed to ban contraception.
Santorum also thinks his Catholic views about marriage should control my gay daughter's civil rights, even though she's not a Catholic.
Thanks for pointing this out. I will make sure to NOT vote for the guy that will turn the US leadership into a bunch of religious zealots!! Whats next, a bunch of pickup trucks full of men stopping and dishing out instant justice everytime they see a woman disobeying their laws?
The slippery slope goes both ways. Can we at least try to stay somewhere in the middle?
He has no record of what you speak.
and he has no BRAIN either - he's an absolute @!$%#ing IDIOT. IF I wanted his kind of leadership, I'd move to IRAN
You may not have to move to Iran. Doesn't seem like Sharia law is that far off. May come a time not too far in future when Mexico closes it borders to keep Americans out!
If the Christian Taliban gets its way this nation will be well on its way to showing the rest of the world how religious oppression is done.
The middle is where we MUST be in this pluralistic, free country!
I had a feeling that this would happen...3 GOP Blocks, Romney and the Elite, Paul and the Libertarians, Santorum and the Evangelical-Social Conservatives...
Establishment Republican Jim DeMint comes out in favor of Libertarianism in the Republican Party calling it "Foundational to conservative principles"
dailycaller.com/2012/01/13/jim-demints-libertarian-lesson/
Not an endorsement of Dr Paul but as close as he could get...
He also draws a bright line between "Compassionate Conservatives" and Real Conservatives.
Egilman
Most real Americans view guys like Jim DeMint as a born again Nazi, listening to DeMint is like replaying a 1933 Hitler speech.
Well, most true liberals call republicans of any stripe Nazi's anyway, so, nothing new here.
not all - some only reach Attila the Hum level
Or some of the conservatives only come up to Richard III status.
Are these the guys who want Big Government in your bedroom and body?
Yes. Big government everywhere but reining in the greed and exploitative behavior of large corporations.
Oh no, we must have big government preventing small businesses from infringing on the rights of monopolies.
... Big Govt./Big God in a woman's bedroom and body. There are enough closeted Republican gay men that the GOP has pretty much narrowed its primary hate target to the bulls eye on the backs of women and girls. These were the same miscreants who whipped up the nation to endlessly hate on the Clintons, especially the one who dared run for president.
Well christians, now you know who to vote for. Never mind that Jesus was obviously a socialist and a total bleeding heart liberal. Always vote for the greedy, money grubbing republicans, the same types Jesus threw out of the temple, because they hate gays and want to force women to carry every pregnancy, no matter what the circumstances.
leroy brown is right.
Welcome ladies to Chattelville. You will commence your range grazing in 2012. Your bodies will turn into baby factories.
Now don't even think about an abortion or even a miscarriage. Trust me everyone will be investigated.
Your uterus will be the property of the state or federal Gov.
One day you will wake up and find any form of contraception may send you to jail, it will become contraband.
Gay folks,.....you will need more than glitter bombs. Better start taking target practice.
Hey,.....guys,....if Marcus can do it, so can you.
Just one bit of advice,...if any one is looking when you shoot, don't flinch like Marcus did. Those loud noised just do him in.
Being good depends on what you do, not what you pray to...
you better go backand study your bible and get your facts straight.This same Jesus came as a lamb to die for mankinds sin , but he will return and rule this world with power and in glory. Got Jesus.
NO....just no more tripe,please
justfedup: you can believe whatever you want, but I think your beliefs are nuts. Go to whatever church you belong to, and play with your religion there, but don't bug the rest of us with your specific beliefs.
Listening to the Evangelicals vs. the Mormons is like listening to a person who believes in Santa Claus arguing with a person who believes in the Easter Bunny.
LOL!!!
I thought the "born again" crowd believed that only those who were "born again" got to go to heaven, Santorum is a Catholic, they arent "born again". And besides didnt his family make their fortune in the anal lube business? I seem to remember something about the santorums and anal lube, I'll have to google his name later and see, but wouldnt that go against what these wingnuts believe also? I thought they could only have anal sex while doing meth with gay prostitutes? I dont know, these wingnuts and their strange beliefs, it's hard to remember which Christen sect worships which incarnation of Horus anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HSlbuli7HM
damnit "doug" how can you make fun of wingnuts if you can't even spell their religion correctly, damn.
good one William
Catholics also take the term "Born again". Santorum has not said anything about this, but, I would think he might be.
You need to learn more about things before you post. This stuff bounces around the internet for quite some time. How embarrassing it can be to be soooooo wrong.
The truly stunning thing is that Baptists would back a Catholic. Traditionally, both sides would absolutely claim the other is not Christian. Hmm, maybe the world IS coming to an end.
Yes I can imagine your embarassment DB Akron, I have read many of your posts and you are totally right on this point, you sure can post the mindless drivel based completely on fiction, it will come back to haunt you when the Kool-aid wears off.
I am surrounded by wingnuts of all faiths, trapped here behind enemy lines. My last boss was an Evangelical (born again), she preached from the minute she got up till the minute she closed her lying eyes to go to sleep, and she told me every day that those " Idol worshipping Catholics were all going to hell because they werent "born again"". Now she got that straight form the mouth of a 10,000 member mega-church pastor who claimed he got it straight for the mouth of god, and you know He's never wrong.
Brain damage occurring during normal birth = 0.1%
Brain damage occurring when born again = 100%
I haven't heard the mormons say a word about the election. Romney seems to keep politics and his religion separate. It's everyone else that has something to say.
Meaning no disrespect, but the Bible doesn't say a word about Catholics (or any other denomination) at all, much less that they are going to hell. It only speaks of the church, who were initially called followers of The Way. I.E.
The words "born again," however, are in the Bible. This is why Christians speak of being "born again."
Please note that it says nothing about what denomination you are. Obviously, people don't go to heaven or hell based on what church denomination they are. I've known a number of Catholics who told me they were born again, and of course I believed them. Also, I'd like to point out that you can be "born again" like this says and not have conservative political views. There are plenty of minority churches full of liberal people who are born again. I've also had friends who were flaming liberals who were born again. And I'm definitely not far right-in fact, I always get in trouble with my friends who are and on really conservative blogs.
Forgive me, those of you who can't bear to see the Bible quoted on here. I just like to back up what I say and sometimes give a little context.
the bible is an out-dated book of legend and myth...step into reality folks..these nazis are using your faith against you...wake up before it's too late...
Divide you fall, stupid bible thumping pukes. Obama 2012.
Big - Yea and united we fall.
They're still trying to pretend they won't have to unite around Romney, but most will. The Libertarians may support Paul in a third party bid, but Santorum can't try that--and he can't beat Romney. It'll be interesting to watch the religious right embrace a Mormon, support Paul, or not vote. However they split, re-election becomes more likely.
Big Trouble - The Good News is these "Holier Than Thou" sat out the 2008 election, hopefully they stay at home 2012 - waiting for "the rapture"
Campingites?
Barbara,
You bring up an interesting point. It seems that the endorsement of Santorum pretty much includes a complete elimination of Romney and Gingrich for that matter. When Romney gets the nomination, the only proper and correct thing for an Evangelical to do would be to abstain from voting for President. Evil is evil, there is no such thing as accepting, let alone supporting any kind of evil. The people who follow these Evangelical idiots know full well they can't in good conscience vote for Romney. And when Romney does get the nomination, watch how these hypocritical leaders suggest that their followers hold their noses and vote for him. They will only be proving just what hypocrites they are.
It is about time we put these people back outside the normal electorate. They vote only based on their religious beliefs. That is inappropriate in this country where religion and government are supposed to be separate. They knew this for years and the bulk of them didn't vote. We were much better off without them.
"Romeny/Santorum - 2012"
"Romeny/Ginrich - 2012"
"Ginrich/Santorum - 2012"
"Santorum/Ginrich - 2012"
"Palin/Trump - 2012"
The GOP is scraping under the barrel again. And it will be the end of the "teahadist" party.
1NewDay
Back in the '50's and '60's the evangelicals wouldn't even get a plank on the party platform, hopefully, after this election cycle when we conservatives take out party back they will no longer have the voice they enjoy now, let them speak and show just how out of touch they actually are!
Egilman,
You can thank Karl Rove for awakening this beast. It was Rove tactics that got the Evangelicals fired up in order to get G W Bush elected. I don't agree with a lot of your posts, but I would be happy to see real conservatives emerge back on the political scene. At least the old school conservatives understood the value of compromise. The Evangelical wing has brought the fanatical, take no prisoners, attitude to government and it has screwed things up for everybody, conservatives and progressives alike. The vast majority of the country is somewhere in the middle with some left and some right of center. The fact is that many of us progressives and conservatives are actually closer to each other than true traditional conservatives are to Evangelicals. I don't have to agree with your politics, but I am glad we can agree that the Evangelical wing has hijacked the Republican party.
Serious question: Any ideas as to why extremist, backward Christianity has become so popular in the last few years?
The Taliban, which isn't exactly an uplifting advertisement for old-time religion, can exploit devastating poverty, isolation, and lack of education in places like Afghanistan, which hasn't changed much in the last few hundred years -- but what's the excuse here in the United States, which used to be on the cutting edge of all forms of progress?
In the case of European history, Christianity in the public sphere resulted in more or less a 2,000-year bloodbath, so why do its excesses appeal to a segment of American society?
Why do some Americans insist so desperately that human beings -- especially a handful of rather dull and temperamental white men -- are still the focal point of the universe, and therefore must make all the rules, to be bent by them and them alone?
1NewDay ... Lee Atwater, not Rove.
Ronald Reagan built this machine, though Jimmy Carter was the first evangelical prez to occupy the WH. Been downhill ever since.
LittleChanges,
I'd agree that Atwater was the guy behind taking emotional based issues into modern campaigns, but Karl took it to a much more evangelical specific bent. I think you may be thinking more about the Moral Majority movement which pretty much evaporated during the Reagan years. Jerry Fallwell actually started the movement, but it wasn't really adapted by any official campaigns. The Moral Majority was pretty much independent in those days, but didn't really have such a big following that translated into votes. Carter was an Evangelical, but never ran on those principles and completely disappointed wishful thinking members of the Moral Majority crowd. Fallwell originally embraced Carter because of his "born again" heritage, but quickly abandoned him because he didn't have policies that were in sync with his religious background.
Atwater was multi faceted in his strategies, most of which were not particularly based on religious beliefs. Atwater in his dying days did turn toward religion and in fact made apologies for many of his actions in campaigns.
What Rove did was lead a modern underground campaign geared around the beliefs of Evangelicals, bringing politics to churches. Rove's surrogates ran all over the South slapping fliers on churchgoer's windshields and helping organize religious leaders and preachers into taking politics right to the pulpit. Rove is also the father of the direct mail and later the email campaign concept. His idea was to keep things low profile because he knew that guys like Fallwell scared too many voters. Rove put a lot of big name Republicans into office by capitalizing on Evangelicals without walking around thumping bibles.
Rove had been a master of dirty tricks and had connections with Atwater, but Rove was the brains behind many of the concepts . Early in his career he came very close to destroying it by getting his hands dirty. He quickly learned not to directly leave fingerprints. Turd Blossom fits him quite well and that was one case where GW Bush knew what he was talking about. Rove is not a particularly religious guy at all, but clearly understood the potential power of using the Evangelical community to his advantage. Rove isn't often credited with this, but clearly he used it while keeping his hands clean and not subjecting himself to attacks related to his hypocracy. Rove produced results anyway he could and a lot of those results relied on the Evangelical community.
Two crazy Mormons two crazy catholics.Two Texans who don't know it's time to go back to Texas.And a bunch of religious zealots telling you who they like.
It can't get any better than this. ROFLMAO
I haven't laughed any more at Leno and Letterman than I did at your comment ghilde,...ya' oughty send them that quote......it's really accurate and funny,and Amerika enjoys a laugh
Religion can bring out the worst in people and here we have a perfect example. 150 conservative evangelical leaders endorse a person who isn't qualified for anything except patronizing the mental dregs of society.
Too bad we can't reeducate these people by forcing them to listen to readings of the Constitution and the separation of church and state references. Then they can practice saying "I will not try to impose my religious values on others by election or legislation" 100,000x
Then write the list of founding fathers who were atheist or agnostic - Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, Washington, Franklin, Adams, Revere...
Jeffs,....
Jefferson, Madison, Washington, Adams, and Franklin along with Einstine were 'Deist', believers in God, but not Christianity or religion. That is why you will see referrences to god in the US Constitution, Declaration of Independence and on currency, but no refference to Jesus, Christianity or any other religion. The framers of the US Constitution were well aware of the oppresive nature of the faith based governments of the past, that is why the very first sentence of the very first Amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.
But, Ellis, didn't they have to pass a law to insert the phrase "Under God" into the National Pledge of Allegiance? So, in that respect (shall make no law...), the Framers seem to have been wrong--because they have.
Actually, there is no reference to "God" or any other deity anywhere in the US Constitution, the only reference to religion is "No religious test shall ever be required for any office of public trust" and the first amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
No mention of God in the Declaration of Independence, either, though it does mention the "creator" which could mean any deity or even nature.
I don't understand how we as Americans can or should take into account religious leaders opinions in regard to who we should or shouldn't vote for. If a religious institution or leader wants to get into politics, that institution should lose its tax exempt status. Lets keep outdated myths and mystics out of our political process.
@G-dog - The pledge of allegiance did not even come about until the early 1900s -- and was created by a man who had progressive-socialist leanings. "Under God" wasn't even added until the 1950s, at the height of the "red scare," to separate us from those nasty, goddless commies. A good argument can indeed be made that "under God" should be removed from the pledge as a violation of the First Amendment, but anytime the Supreme Court has had the opportunity to do so, they have punted on the matter and refused to rule. Gutless, IMO.
And "In God We Trust" was NOT on the money until late in the game either, I believe, like "under God" in the Pledge it was added in the 1950's during all the "Red Scare" and McCarthyism crap. Our founding fathers did NOT want a repeat of what too many of them fled in the old countries, STATE RELIGION. And it is possible Franklin was an atheist but references are too vague to be sure. In any case you are correct many were Deists and Men of the Enlightenment. Also the Baptists claim THEY were in support of the Separation of Church and State from the founding too. I forget the exact web link but it's under Baptist Joint Council for Religious Freedom. Many good articles there rebutting all this Fundamentalist revisionist history..
Including, if I recall correctly, references to the first court cases restricting prayer in school, in the 1850's in Illinois as I recall, Catholics suing to stop Protestant Prayers in public schools. And they won.
once again, the Religious Right needs to stop interpretting their bible through their political dreams and to start defining their political goals through their New Testament which glaringly stands against EVERYTHING the GOP stands for!!! Especially robbing the poor to feed the rich!!!
Being a good person depends on what it is you do, not on what you pray to...
In God We Trust has appeared on U.S. coins since 1864 and on paper currency since 1957.
www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust
And it did take an act of Congress to do it.
Imagine had the founding fathers not been Deist.
And there are those Christians who continue to make an attempt at changing history and calling some of these founders (yes I know that not all were Deist) Christians, when clearly they were not. When I read through the Declaration of Independence it is quite clear this document has the writing style of Thomas Paine. At the very least Paine, Jefferson and others shared a common belief, and that being Deism.
I have brought this up to many people and they have NO idea what Deism is, and therefore they have but total ignorance on the subject matter. For those of you who do not understand Deism, go and read up on this. It may enlighten you to what our founders were about, and at the same time could possibly enlighten yourself if you have any concerns about Revealed Religion.
Nice to see that Sanctimonium has some support from somewhere -- though if he were smart he would renounce it.
Rick Santorum has said he wants to impose “Christian sharia law” on Americans and
has stated that he doesn’t believe that Americans aren’t guaranteed privacy
under the constitution, a truly anti-American position. He also wants a
constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and annulling those already on
the books. He is obviously anti-civil liberties. He wants to force his
religious beliefs on the country.
Stubbleq - He also wants women to produce babies, stay at home and home school - that'll work in the 21st Century when it takes two salaries to support a household - maybe the government will subsidize you, not or be like Michelle Bachman - take in foster children and let the state pay you
150 American Taliban leaders leading the sheeples
I prefer Perry over Santorum. He is far more entertaining and a little bit dumber than Santorum. Neither of them have even the slightest chance of becomming President.
Perry has more financial backers because his backers see him as someone much easier to manipulate. He has about as much integrity as any other puppet.
Santorum fits right in with the Religious Zealots. His is so far to the right he will never get any votes from moderates. Either one would make a fine republican candidate.
I totally agree. The far right Republicans will never be smart enough to know that they could never win a national election. Their candidate could become President of Idaho. If anyone like Santorum was ever elected President millions would be killed.
Funny, since the Evangicals consider the Catholic Church "Satan's Whore." Amazing how far the crazies will go in America.
It IS funny JXC. The catholic church is the one thing that evangelicals and atheists can find common ground on!
leroy - how is that on common ground?
And sanctimonious Santorum promises to bring his religious beliefs to the white house with him. I guess we will have to practice the rhythm method and do our own vasectomies. There are many pedophile priests looking for a job maybe can appoint one to the Supreme court as long as they are not homosexual.
xvet
But it is a step above non-Christian mormons
Athiests love everybody. They don't have 150 christianist leaders telling them to hate others.
That's interesting. I've had them call me just about every name in the book simply because of my opinions. I've also had them wish things on me like hurricanes and wish wildfires on my family-I've also read many comments that have said that religious people were the cause of all bad things on earth and they should all be gotten rid of. What would you call that sentiment exactly? Who is telling them to do that? I don't call them names or wish bad things on them. No Christian leader has ever told me to hate others, not ever. I will grant that plenty of Christians certainly act like they hate people who disagree with them, and there are leaders that say hateful things; but these people are not following what the Bible says or what Jesus said. He said to love your enemy and to pray for those who persecute you.
Tooelemom's ignorance is showing
Christian Taliban Mullahs at work.
Stupid is as stupid does.
In Santorum's case ignorant is as ignorant does. He likely never took a biology course.
Leroy.....is it badder than ole king kong or madder than ole king kong?
Actually, this agnostic has no use for any of this bunch. The Catholics are no worse or better than the rest of them.
This is actually a good thing. This kind of endorsement boosted Santorum in Iowa. He's only a few delegates behind Romney. Should he take SC, the primary will be a long and expensive fight. The more they spend now, the tougher November will be. The longer the primary fight, the worse they will look to most Americans. Romney will have to play to the GOP/TP base the whole way, and that will not fly in November.
People may be mad over the economy, but they will not vote for a President who wantsto take their ability to use birth control. That is a wallet issue, among other things.
What worries me is that Ron Paul may be attempting to poise himself to force his son as the VP choice.
All we can hope for is that either Santorum or Paul would tick off more people than not.
We don't need the party of kick em to the curb anymore.
Romney wants the job for two reasons: 1) He is an arrogant so-and-so who is sure he knows better than anyone(of course, Mass. did not agree with him after one term).....2) He wants to make sure his taxes go down so he can be even richer than he is now.
That failure to disclose financials is going to bite him big time. I know part of it is the low tax rate he pays.....maybe he does not want people to know how little he pays, or he's worried that his charitables will have a bomb, if there are any.....
Ron Paul will not win, so he has another game. I think he wants his son as VP choice. We'll see.
Mare- You should have watched the Stephanopolis debate. No one was against contraceptives unless you think abortion is a form of birth control.
Actually Jackie you would be wrong. Santorum is against contraceptives. he said, and I quote 'Of course they are wrong, they promote certain behavior in the sexual realm..." I did watch the debate. I'm wondering if you did.
I can't wait until these holier than thous get caught with their pants around their ankles. Oh wait Newt was already caught, more than once.
I love to watch Evangelicals make fools of themselves with their bronze age religious beliefs, eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a Jewish Zombie!! LOL
PSEUDO eating the flesh and drinking the blood
Under the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, it's literally cannibalism not just symbolism.
You call yourselves evangelicals this guy calls for political assasinations! I don't know but the last time I read the Bible murder is forbidden by God! Then you have even the laws that are man made in your country & mine they clearly state assasinations ARE AGAINST THE LAWS !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8uNcIEvGdo&feature=youtu.be
America you have lost your moral compass, you no longer seek God on what to do nor know what's right or wrong, good or evil.
You must have been reading a totally different bible than the ones I have read Nick. The one I read not only condones murder, but genocide and rape as well. Your bible didn't even tell the story about Noah and the ark when "god" drowned the entire world like filthy rats? One of my favourite bible stories was the one where "god" commanded his troops to slaughter all the women and children after defeating their enemy but take the young virgins as sex slaves. Remember that one? I guess not...
Good is what you do, not who you pray to.
Hey Leroy you forgot about all the stoning going on. Heck you would have thought the entire old testament was written by a bunch of stoners !
Check out Deut 21 :18-21 just to start
Might be time for god to find another virgin and make another baby. It's been over 2,000 years. I get horny after only a few months.
Maybe that's why the imaginary friend of Abraham never prohibited rape - he enjoyed raping the occasional virgin.
This same God who you mock you will bow before him and confess him as Lord and King. Just because you dont believe in God dont meanyou are not exempt fromGod'sjudgenent foryour sins and works.
Oh, whatever.
Who says I don't believe in God? And I think it was damn nice of him to have his son sacrificed for my sins so I could go to heaven. What I don’t understand is why we needed a sacrifice at the time. Were things or people really bad or what. I don’t know if the bad people back then could compare with the bad people we have today. Just a couple of things. The leader of al-Qaeda hijacks some jets and flies them into building which kill a few thousand innocent people. He is considered to be the number 1 terrorist in the world. The president of the United States can not let this be. He attacks Iraq, blows up half the country and kills hundreds of thousands of innocent people. He is now the number 1 terrorist in the world. While these two are really bad people, they are not alone. Bad people are doing bad things every day. This is why I thought we might need another half god and half human to be sacrificed.
Thanks for your concern, but I'm opposed to slavery and see no value in lords or kings.
Your imaginary friend is your problem, not mine.
This isnt about God, its about religion. Religion has no place in heaven and is a childish form of slavery and punishment wrapped around the neck of those who truly believe.
I don't imagine it was easy, for evangelicals, who typically are very anti-Catholic, to support a Catholic, for the white house.
true kind of like a marriage of Voodoo and Catholicism.But then that has worked out well in the Caribbean so maybe this can as well....catlicks think the pope is infallible and bern agins think the bible is....two pods in the back of a panel truck late at night trying to break in to folks basements....
They are also very anti-Mormon, so if the choice was between the Mormon and the Catholic, they'd grit their teeth, hold their nose and vote for the Catholic.
Ironic that they can't bring themselves to vote for a candidate that is neither Mormon nor Catholic, but instead belongs to an acceptable Protestant faith - President Obama.
President Obama has the wrong colored skin for these creeps who actually think they are relevant!
they wouldn't support "the unethical LIZARD", not the 2 heathen mormons, not the Texas cracked pot, not the OTHER Texas current guv'nuh IDIOT - so it was rick the prick #2 or NOBODY (and santorum is #2, that's for sure...)
Not to be picky, but Voodoo is the result of the marriage between Catholicism and certain west African religions.
As if we needed another reason not to vote for this clown.